Air Compressor

[nat_wheatley]

My Ingersall Rand/60 gal/3Hp air compressor is struggling to keep up with my air drill. I know absolutetly nothing about compressors, and am open to any advice/tips. I would guess that my only option is to replace the compressor. If that's the case (please say it isn't), what should I look for in a new one?

[Gary Campbell]

Nat..
I use a 7.5 hp 60 gal unit in our shop. You shouldnt need to change it.

When I started trying to put together a drill for our PRSa, (part wizard for software and before the PRS drill came out) I started with the old PRT drill postP that came with part wizard. This postP jogs the drill to the hole location and then runs the Custom8 (drilling)file. During some difficulties with making the file work with a variable hole depth (like the SB PRS drill) made a few drilling files with the now available PRS Drill Vectric post. I found that with the drill running fuul speed, full time during the drilling file, my air use was more than my compressor could handle also.

Even tho I now have the PRS drill posts for both drills, I still use the old PRT post and 2 Modified for VCarve Pro. I also prefer to use air to plunge the bit as it can be regulated at the tool for plunge speed. I also use a prox on plunge to insure full depth. This prox and a timing cycle, will peck the drill in hard to drill materials. (Thanks to Mike Richards)

What you can do, if you like, is to make a custom post that drops the drill to drilling height, the only runs the drill motor when drilling. You will need to add an additional solenoid valve and do some wiring, but a Saturday spent is better than buying a new comp.
This drill: (which is still for sale)


5317

Will run on this compressor:

5318
When drilling cycle time is 1 hole per second. After 40 "C8" cycles the pressure drops from 100 to 90. That is a 4CFM portable. Send me an email off forum, I may have the parts in stock.
Gary

[nat_wheatley]

E-mail sent, thanks.

[nat_wheatley]

Update. Problem solved. With much help and patience from Gary, I did add a solenoid to each of the drills. This enables me to operate the drill cylinders and drills. The drill heads turn on only when actually drilling.

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=o7HK4Lks2J0

The drills use ALOT less air now. I'm able to machine an entire sheet of cabinet sides, with line boring and pilot holes, and my compressor has no issue keeping up. Before I would need to pause the file several times while my compressor 'caught up'.

I'll try to post a photo of the added solenoids installed on the drill airlines over the next few days.

[bill_lumley]

Hey , it looks like you guys solved a problem that has plagued me since I got the PRS drill . I just upgraded my 26 gallon compressor to a 60 gallon unit with a 3 HP motor as Nat has . I thought this would solve the problem but it appears not . I was thinking that because my bot is in an unheated garage it had something to do with the compressed air coming from a warm space where my compressor is to a cold space where the air is used . Yesterday I ran a file with 36 5mm holes with my new compressor and found the drill started to loose power after 12 holes . This is the worst it has performed . I was able to get close to 100 holes with my 26 gallon unit in warmer weather . I was about to re-engenier my drill mount to take a die grinder as Gary had mentioned in another thread but if I could get some help sorting this out I would prefer to stay with the air drill . Thanks Bill

[wberminio]

Great solution.My compressor doesn't lose pressure,but runs and runs while I'm drilling.
I would also welcome some guidance.

Thanks

Erminio

[nat_wheatley]

I'll get together some info on the setup and post it in the next couple of days. There are a couple of steps, but it's a fairly straightforward fix.

[rb99]

When I was manufacturing, I found air drills used lots of air.

I had a 5hp 220v 2phase 100 gallon tank and it would start and stop quite a bit.

I think they need 90lbs of pressure.

RB

[srwtlc]

Be sure that you drain the tank from time to time. I've seen some air tanks that were half full of water (condensation) and they wondered why they didn't have the capacity that they used to.

[bill_lumley]

Thanks Scott - it is a brand new tank in my case and I always drain my tanks and have never had more than 1/4 cup of water.

[nat_wheatley]

Here are several photos of the drill airlines with the solenoids installed:
(I had to shrink the pictures quite a bit to post them, I can e-mail them if they haven't come out clearly here.)


5319


5320


5321



Basically all that I've done is to re-route the air to the cylinder, and put a solenoid in that line. This allows the cylinder to act independantly of the drill.

The new solenoid is wired to a relay in the control box. I used the tan 'telephone wire', and was able to find a 100' roll at HD for around $10.

The final step is to modify the PostP file to signal the solenoid to open/close at the begining/end of each drill file, and to have the solenoid for the drill turn on/off before/after drilling each hole. I'm still working on this as I get a short pause between each hole, you'll notice it in the video.

When I first set this up I used a manual toggle, which eliminated the need to do any wiring. I put a prompt in the drill files that reminded me to plunge/retract the drill cylinder at the beginning/end of each file.

Here are the part numbers for both the manual toggle and the solenoid that I used:

Toggle:

62475K24
http://www.mcmaster.com

Solenoid:
2V035 1/8 24VDC

http://www.stcequipment.com/I-Solenoid-spec-2V025.htm

(Its the 2VO35, not the 2VO25)

Here are the item numbers for some of the other parts I used (also from McMaster-Carr):

5648K334 (5/32 tubing)

5111K104 (Push to connect fitting)

Look through the options for the inlet/outlet for both the toggle and the solenoid and the available fittigs, it may be that there is an easier arrangment than I've used.

Also be sure to modify all the files that involve the drill (drill offset) etc. to account for the added cylinder activity.

Let me know if you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

[fmihm]

Nat --

See "Easily reduce graphic file sizes for Posting, while preserving much of their quality."

It's at:
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/312/38105.html?1232587412

[nat_wheatley]

Thanks Frank. I do definitely need a new way to do it, I'll take a look.

[bill_lumley]

Thanks Nat & Gary for the ideas here . I added a solenoid in series with the Shopbot supplied solenoid and the drill itself and changed my Post Processor with Nat's help . My drill now only operates when being plunged to drill . I also changed the fittings to the drill to standard quick connect fittings to allow easy oiling of the drill from time to time . I am now able to drill an entire sheet of cabinet parts with Shelf holes with no issues . My compressor does cycle during the run but it also catches up which it could never do before . After only a small number of holes the compressor previously would come on and stay on for the duration of my drilling and eventually fall too far behind and the drill would loose power .

I also added a heater to my shop but in retrospect this was not my main problem . Also a big contribitor in my mind to the issue was that the hose supplied to the drill was leaking at the fittings because of an improper installation at the factory . I discovered this by installing an air pressure guage at the drill assembly and noticed an abnormal pressure drop when the drill came on . With all the noise this was the only way to find this . Leaking air sounds no different than the running drill

[josh_g]

Nat - Yes, it's quite common that the air compressors will use a lot less air, therefore increasing your productivity. These are great machines...and yes, it would be a good idea to look through the options for the inlet/outlet for both the toggle and the solenoid and the available fittings.

Good luck!

Josh
http://wisconsin-auctions.com

[alister]

Finally getting around to this Drill mod and also installing Garys DustFoot.
Could someone point me to/send me the file to make this plunge?

[Gary Campbell]

Alister...
Send me an email, I have some questions for you and then I can send a file that will work.
Gary islaww(at)comcast(dot)net