Spindle RPM Tool Freezing Up

[jdervin]

I bought the Spindle Control Board from ShopBot for my PRS Standard with Yaskawa VFD. Installation went smoothly and everything works great -- until I start the spindle. Then the Spindle RPM Tool (TR command) freezes up so badly that it can't even be terminated with the task manager.

The problem only happens if I use the RPM Tool and the spindle at the same time (including a TR command embedded in a cutting file). Unfortunately, this pretty much defeats the purpose of the investment.

I called ShopBot tech support and spoke with two different people, and so far we haven't found a solution. Both asked if the ground was loose in the VFD (it wasn't). They also felt that the problem was due to RF interference from the VFD (or something else) and encouraged me to try to mount the spindle control board as far from the VFD as possible (which I find surprising, since the installation guide shows it being mounted inside the VFD). I've also tried an alternate computer and achieved the same results.

So far, with a USB extension and an alternate wire (shielded), I've tried a distance of 10' from everything (VFD, computer, Bot, etc.) and still seen no signs of improvement.

I'm wonderig if anyone else has something new I can try.

[navigator7]

Just a shot in the dark ...

You didn't roll up a coil of wire and place it near something?

Go into the shop with a fresh set of eyes and evaluate every thing you did after receiving the unit.

[bob_s]

John
I am running a PRS alpha and have a bit of the same issue. My VFD will ignore a TR command if the spindle is running. If it is not running it works fine. I put a pause for 2 seconds in the PP before and now it all works.
If I am cutting a single file it is not an issue, but I use Cabinet Parts Pro for case work and that combines all of the operations into one file, that is where i noticed it. Ryan at Shopbot thought it was an electrical interference issue, but even with my cables uncoiled and all grounds rechecked i could not find the cause. The "pause first" workaround has been fine for 3 months so i just accept it as the best way to go. email me if you want a copy of the PP I am using for CabPartsPro
Bob

[jdervin]

So here's my latest discovery on this issue...

I'm still unable to find the source of any resolvable electrical interference. However, when I use one computer to control the ShopBot and a second computer to control the spindle RPM's, everything works fine. I'm wondering if this points to some sort of USB conflict when everything is used on a single machine. Regardless, it puts a hole in the electrical interference theory.

[dlcw]

I run a PRS Alpha and have exactly the same problem Bob is having. If the spindle is running, TR does not work. If the spindle is not running TR works fine.

This sure seems like a real problem somewhere in the ShopBot hardware/software. If only one person was having the problem then I would say "local gremlins".

Feedback from tech support was that there must be something wrong in my setup. :rolleyes:

[kevin]

exact same problem for the spindle. I try to change the RPM and it freezes. I have a Yaskawa spindle. I spoke to Frank at ShopBot about it and he said to move to different USB ports. It is still buggy. My 2 year warranty is almost up on the machine. I am just trying to find all the bugs in the machine.

[scottbot]

I've got the same problem and also got the same suggestions from ShopBot support. I was spending much more time than I could afford trying to get it to work so it is sitting in a box unused. I think I'll try Bob's idea of putting a pause at the beginning of the file to see if that works for me. I'll report back with my findings.

Scott

[scottbot]

I've got the same problem and also got the same suggestions from ShopBot support. I was spending much more time than I could afford trying to get it to work so it is sitting in a box unused. I think I'll try Bob's idea of putting a pause at the beginning of the file to see if that works for me. I'll report back with my findings.

Scott

[jdervin]

Scott, Kevin, Don, and Bob--

Any possibility of getting confirmation that controlling the spindle from a separate computer fixes the problem?

[frank134]

Don't know if this help. Mine did that when I plug both usb into my computer with out a usb hub. If I use a hub that problem went away. Hope this help.

[dlcw]

John,

I don't have a 2nd computer in the shop to try it out. I found a work around, at least for my spindle warmup routine. I set the spindle speed and start it. Then stop it, change the spindle speed and start it again, then repeat for the other speeds.

When cutting a SBLink file, my spindle speeds are all the same. I just change the feedrates manually if they don't sound right. For Aspire carving files, I have a seperate file for each tool and since the spindle is shut off between tool changes, changing the spindle speed is not a problem.

I just hope that someday a fix is found. :(

[scottbot]

I can try it with or without the hub but using a second computer is not an option for me at this time. I'll try to find some time for it this weekend.

Scott

[jdervin]

If I use a hub that problem went away.

Is the hub externally powered or does it draw its power directly from the computer?

[jdervin]

Just to clarify my two computer request...
I'm not proposing this as a workaround, I just want to see if I can rule out that the problem is specific to my computer.

I don't know of a way to use two computers running concurrent cutting files, so the only way to conduct this test while one computer is running a cutting file (I recommend air cutting), is to type some [TR] commands manually from the second computer to see if anything freezes up.

Thanks to all for the help and feedback.

[jdervin]

I tried using a self-powered USB hub today (the kind you have to plug into an electrical outlet) and everything worked great. Though I've only had one day of testing, this really seems to be the solution. Thanks to Frank M for the tip. I'm curious to see if other people find the same results.

[Gary Campbell]

A couple of other things to try:

1) Make sure the SB controller is on a USB hub. Shouldnt need to be powered, but can be.

2) Plug the Spindle control into another port on the root hub. (back of the computer) Separate from the hub or port that the controller is in.


Don...
Your spindle rpm changes should work well, as the TR command is given before each toolchange when spindle is off. I used a different rpm for each feedrate in both VCPro and eCabs files.

BTW, Thanks to Ryan @ SB for the tip & help with the problem

[Ryan P]

We have made some changes to the RMP control software that should correct some of the issues in this thread. This version corrects the issue of the TR not working in the warm up routine. We are still looking into why it locks up but as Gary points out plugging the RPM usb into another usb port should stop the lock up (example: Plug the ShopBot usb into and external hub and the RMP usb into direct into the computer.)
Here is a link to the beta page http://www.shopbottools.com/beta_notes.htm (http://www.shopbottools.com/beta_notes.htm) .
If you have any issues please email them to me. Please include as much detail as you can to help us duplicate the problem.

[kevin]

The list of Kevin Dunphy's bugs:
The spindle freezes up. I am at the point now where I just uplug it. I had the problem with 2 seperate computers and it happened exactly like these guys were saying. The other day I lost a comm erorr so it made me a little nervous that I gave up on the spindle control.
Other than that it is not a bad problem for shop bot, I am convinced it is software related.
The other thing that ShopBot knows, because I was speaking to frank about it, is the drill head dropped on the table. Was it our fault? I liked to say No. There was a wire that was not connected on the drill head itself. It was a frustrating problem. But it came down to miscommunication with the wiring. If I can get a new chuck head all would be forgiven.
This one is for Ryan, You have a fantistic program. Anybody reading this, if I do a sheet in about 8 minutes with dados that is fantastic.
The back dados can be adjusted to within a 32 second of an inch. They come out slightly oversized by 1/8" on 5/8" melamine on 3/4 plywood, they are exact but that could be because it is metric but those are really mickey mouse problems.
The only real headache I have are the side dados. It won't let me adjust. They are a little undersized. I have tried everything. The only thing I modified is I removed the stop and they are through dados. I find it is way easier for assembly.
The other issue is the corner cabinet. I know I sent e-mails before. It is like the machine goes crazy. I haven't tried as a DXF file and run in part works 2.5.
Anybody else who has a custom shop. I can recommend Ryan'
s program. I am not in a rush to use the Shop Bot link for thermo wood. One of the main reasons why is our kitchen average between 12-15 drawers sometimes. We use the same file for cabinet as for drawers. The drawers look fantastic. You don't see any particle board or unsightly edges. It takes 2 guys, on average, to make and install 3 drawers an hour. There is a lot of money in drawers. You can charge $300.00 a pot drawers so do the math. I will send an e-mail with 2 files.

[Gary Campbell]

For those of you that are having problems getting the spindle controller to work, The hint posted above, along with installation of the latest beta version of the software, seems to work very well.

It is becoming obvious, that on some computers, separation of the controller card and spindle controller all the way to the root hub may be mandatory. There are of course length restrictions with USB cabling, so follow instructions or SB Tech's advice. Each beta version add a few more "nuances" for funtionality and safety

This separation mimics John's 2 computer scenario above.

[kevin]

I installed the beta drivers .It seems to have solved the problem it works fine
Thanks for the heads up
Als forgot to mention both computers windows 7

[jdervin]

After finding the time to do further tests, I'm still experiencing RPM tool freeze-ups. I've emailed Ryan at ShopBot as per his request, but thought I would briefly post here on the forum that for me, the above suggestions have made noticable improvements to the problem, but haven't resolved it.

Quick details:
> Spindle USB is plugged directly into computer
> ShopBot USB is connected via a USB hub (powered or not - no difference)
> Running Sb3.6.17beta11 on Windows XP
> Both USB cords are the ones provided by ShopBot -- no extensions used

[feinddj]

I will second Frank M. I had all the above issues. I visited Shopbot's offices and talked directly with them. Nice to have relatives who live in Raliegh so I can write off my visits, but I digress. The Solution, and I have had no problems since, was to use a USB hub. I don't know why or how it works but it does.