Probe

[Ryan Patterson (Unregistered Guest)]

I was using the probe 3d for surfaces with the new software(copy machine) and it works great. I do have a question with the way it works. I set X & Y step to .02 it moves .02” then plunge in Z and then steps again but in some places the Z will plunge repeatedly in one place without advancing in X. It will stay in one spot plunging for 30 to 60 seconds then advance in X. In the area it makes repeated plunges is not in a high detail area it is in a flat area. It does not affect the end result . The question: Is why does it plunge so many times before advancing.

[bill.young]

Hey Ryan,

The Copy Machine uses a new probing strategy that only records points when it's moving down, not when it's moving laterally the way the DOS routines did, which gives a better quality probing file. If the probe makes contact when it's making the stepover, it picks up until the contact is broken and then plunges again to record the point.

That can cause what seems like a few extra z moves, especially when it comes up against a vertical surface, but certainly not as many as you're experiencing. If you could email me the settings that you used in the Copy Machine fillin sheet I'll see if I can duplicate the problem.

Bill

[yohanpauls]

Kind day!
Where I can buy digital 3D the probe?
Thank for the answer

[Brady Watson]

Yohan,
You can buy the probe in question directly from ShopBot.

-Brady

[yohanpauls]

Hi Brady
On how many of cycles its resource?

Thank you, Yohan

[yohanpauls]

Hi Brady
You have a probe fo ShopBot?

[Brady Watson]

Yes I have a ShopBot probe similar to this one:

http://www.shopbottools.com/accessory1.htm

-Brady

[yohanpauls]

Hi Brady
I don't found the description on the probe.
You can answer me one question?
The probe has a digital output with a normal low level of a signal (0.1-0.5 V)?

Thank you, Yohan

[Brady Watson]

Yohan,
Which ShoptBot model do you own?

-Brady

[yohanpauls]

Hi Brady
I have not the machine tool ShopBot
I have the machine tool of the Italian CIELLE (ALFA) corporation
For the machine tool I want to purchase Probe
But under the characteristics of the interface Probe and price I while am bent to
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12581&item=3839247 804&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Brady Watson]

Yohan,
That is a very good price. It looks almost exactly like the SB probe. I would e-mail the seller to get the specifications & to see if it will work on your machine.

-Brady

[fleinbach]

Brady, Yohan

I just purchased one from the same guy. It arrived yesterday. It looks ok but I haven't tried it yet. It appears to be a bit more sturdy then the one I bought from shopbot over a year ago but I bought mine before they changed to the new model they sell now. Of course It only looks beefyer, if that's a word, I still have to test it to see if it even works.

[paco]

Cool Frank!
Keep us nformed of your obserations...
What's it's fit to router; 1/4" or 1/2"? Is it supplied with "tips"? Which size? How long the wire? What's the infos about; thoses that seem to be provide with on picture? The price is really interesting...

[gerald_d]

Why is it important to fit the probe into the collet of the router? Because the probe is long and slender, and it relies on "collisions" to work, it is probably going to get bent somewhere along the line. Then, if it is sitting in the freely rotating router collet, a bent probe will give results all over the show.

My home-made probes sat on non-rotating brackets to the side of the router, there was no need for the miniaturisation of the collet-mounted probes. Before I get flooded with requests for details on home-made probes, they were nothing more complex than a knitting needle making electrical contact with the tin-foil-covered object - no company will sell you this "high-tech" stuff, but it works just as well provided that you can metal-plate the object.

[Brady Watson]

Gerald...the SB probe is capable of doing 3D scanning as well. Using the router as the mount makes the most sense. A bit of masking tape secures the router shaft from spinning.

If you have a good grounded machine, and you understand how the probe routine works, you will not bend the SB probe.

-Brady

[fleinbach]

Paco and all,

I new you would want to know if it works. SO I hooked it up, and yes it does, plus it even has a neat led that is red when idle and turns green when activated.
It uses 3 wires +5 common Grd

What's it's fit to router; 1/4" or 1/2"? 1/4"

Is it supplied with "tips"? No, tip seems perminant

Which size? I didn't measure but appears 1/16"

How long the wire? 20"

[paco]

Thanks Frank!
Are'nt the "tip" screwed?

[gerald_d]

Brady, the "knitting-needle" and tin-foil also does 3D. Are you saying that guys should be careful of bending the probe? (need good grounding and a careful approach)

[billp]

"need good grounding and a careful approach"..... This looks like a good time to remind people that you can NOT use the "Z-Zero" routine when you have the probe chucked into your router!!!The plastic body insulates the grouding circuit, and you get a VERY mangled probe tip...( please don't ask me why I know this......).

[fleinbach]

Paco

The tip just rotates and I don't want to try to take it apart to see how it's attached.

[paco]

Sure Frank leave it there! Thanks anyway! Keep us inform of what you get as reliability from it...

Hey Bill...

[Brady Watson]

Gerald,
Using tin foil for 3D is impractical if you want to get a nice clean file...plus foil doesn't always want to adhere closely to the substrate. I guess it is a pretty cool trick if you don't have a probe. Hats off for that.

When I meant a 'careful approach' I mean, run the probe routines at least a few times to get familiar with it before you do something for real. When probing a 3D file, and using the SB probe, you have to make sure that the probe doesn't go too deep that it scrapes the collet against the piece. I 3D probed an eagle and this would have happened if I didn't pack bits into the area where the spread wings met the body. There were areas of the file lower in Z than that area, so setting the lower limit height higher wasn't an option.

So all I am saying is, spend some time understanding how to 'think in probe' and plan ahead to anticipate problems before you walk away for the night. I had an issue with the probe not getting a good ground until I buffed off the anodizing on the shank.

Overall the SB probe is excellent. The only beef I have is that the styli are too short. This is more of a problem with the new probe than the older model. There are pros and cons to both. It would be nice if SB stocked longer probes ready for purchase.

-Brady

[ron brown]

On parts that do not have a lot of detail, I have used aluminum foil vacuumed or glued down with good success. It is also possible to copy aluminum or other conductive material. Be sure and clean such parts well before trying to copy.

Extra styli can be made simply with a small lathe of metal or a plastic such as delrin. It would be nice if all folks wanted the same style styli so a company could keep longer probes in stock.

Ron

[billp]

You CAN buy other tips for the (newer)Shopbot probe via MSC (www.mscdirect.com (http://www.mscdirect.com))under their heading of "probe styli" (pp.1318-19 in the 2003/2004 "Big Book"). The problem is that they are not very long, but they DO have an "extender"which might work in some applications..

[gerald_d]

Could someone tell us the electrical principle that the probe uses to sense contact? I remember reading something about gold-plated switch contacts..... Or has the probe become more high-tech than just being a very sensitive "switch"?

(Maybe it has an exciter coil causing the point to resonate, and contact shifts the resonant frequency or increases the current required to maintain the set frequency? Or strain gauges? Or piezo-electric crystals?)

[Brady Watson]

Gerald,
I don't know the details of the new probe, but the older model uses screws and a PCB/copper terminals to indicate when the probe has broken contact. The probe is used on the same input switch as the Z-zero plate. However, while the Z-zero plate is triggered when contact is made (circuit is closed), the probe indicates contact when the connection is broken. Since they are on the same circuit (Input 1), they won't work simultaneously...Hence the warning about using the Z-zero plate and probe together.

Unlike the Roland Picza, the new or old probes don't use a piezo-type pickup. It is strictly mechanical. The new style probe has a much better feel to it when you move the stylus around. Sometimes the older ones can be clunky, but I haven't had any problems with mine. I am pretty sure that the new probes also come with a calibration certificate or sticker.

-Brady

[gerald_d]

Thus, if the probe is just a switch, and guys can use masking tape to stop the probe from rotating the router collet, then why look for factory-made extensions and tips? Surely one can stick a home-made extension (or different sized tip) to the probe, or to the side of the probe?

[Brady Watson]

Hmm....Interesting thought. Tagging another probe to the side of the existing one may work. As it is, the probe attaches with a small screw with female threads in the stylus...I believe it is a 4-32 size, possibly smaller.

The only reason I would have for buying a metal lathe would be to make more styli, but I can't justify that. Attaching another one seems like a good solution, but I would be worried that it might break loose when doing Z moves, or jambing because of the articulation of the probe.

Certainly opens up another way of looking at the issue of longer styli.

-Brady

[gerald_d]

Could you slide an extension piece over the standard probe? Maybe even holding it with wax used like a hot-melt glue?

[ron brown]

Gee,

Or, one could use a wood lathe. Bore hole for screw-thread, face part. Reverse part, centered on headstock and live center if one did not have proper "chuck". Turn desired end.

This could even be done on a drill-press or mill. I think I could do it with a hand-held drill.

If one wanted to get real inventive, I think the stylus could be created on the ShopBot itself. This could be done by several methods.

It all boils down to being more intelligent than the tools one is working with.

Ron

[Brady Watson]

Here's a prototype in AL...still need to find a suitable tap. It is about 3.5" overall, 3/16 shank necked down to 1/8".


5441

-Brady

[paco]

I have this customer who wish to had 3D part, with VERY fine details, copied ; just to how very small a stylus you guys have ever use? 1/8", 1/16", 1/32"??? This customer is not bodered by price so I might join the "probe club" soon!!! For this though, I would'nt need the stylus to be very long; about 0.5-0.75". Is 1/32" to flexy? If I remember, the SB probe come with 2 stylus right? 1/8" and 1/16"?

What about smallest bits you use for fine details; is 7 deg. 1/32" tapered bits good? Or do you prefer other type such as 45 deg. V-bit? Any body know about a source for 1/16" CED 1/4"CEL ball end bit with a long reach like 2" OAL?

By the way; all your ideas about this topics are very interesting! Thanks in advance!

[Brady Watson]

Paco,
It depends on how large the item is. Small items with a lot of detail are best done on a Roland Picza scanner. The size of the probe is very similar to a sewing needle. You can see the size of the probe below, scanning a 1/24 scale Ferrari 550 intake.


5442

Here is the toolpath simulation preview in MillWizard:


5443

The SB probe is good with the provided 1/16 or 1/8" bit, but I only use the SB probe for items that will not fit on the Roland.

3D is best machined with a ballnose bit. Depending on what software/CAM you use, you may be inclined to 1st machine it with a 1/8" ballnose, and then go back with a 1/16" ballnose to get the detail, with lower risk of bit breakage.


-Brady

[Brady Watson]

Ready to go...


5444




-Brady

[paco]

Great Brady! Do you consider making a smaller tip for your probe (1/16")? Feasible?
Do you know about a source for 1/16" CED 1/4"CEL ball end 1/4" Shank bit with a long reach like 2" OAL?
I was wondering if you use both X and Y raster toolpath with Mill Wizard; do you get a BETTER definition of details? Or is only X or Y raster is enought from a detailed file like your Ferrari 550 scanned?

[paco]

Hey Frank! Do you get satisfactory results from your new probe? Is it working good?

[Brady Watson]

Paco,
You can get similar ballnose bits from Onsrud or MSC. Don't push the 1/16" bits too hard...they break very easily. Do a rough-out pass 1st. I usually just raster in X depending on material. There really is no advantage that I have found to rastering in both directions...just another chance to screw up the piece.

I am going to make a 1/16" tip for my probe when I get the time...At the moment trying to get a big 3D job out the door.

-Brady

[fleinbach]

Paco, I havn't had time to thoroughly check out the prob but when I do I will let you know the resoults.

[paco]

That's OK! Thank you both for help. Glad to see that you are busy... I begin to be some too!
Brady, what about going small a probe tip as 1/32"? A little like the one your Roland scanner use but installed on "PRT" probe...? Do you ever feel a need for? And about bits; ever test 1/32" 7 deg. tapered bits for 3D purposes? I'll be looking for 1/16" ball end bits at Onsrud and MSC but never saw any like that at thoses... maybe I should ask for it specificaly?!?!


I wonder if Normand is getting good results from is probed file and is new 3D CAM software...
Hey Normand! Where are you?! Your e-mail and now your phone line are off!!! What's happening to you? Are you still looking at the forum?!?!

[Brady Watson]

Paco,
I haven't tried a 1/32 stylus on my machine. You can try it...just get more probe attaching screws and be prepared to straighten the stylus if something goes wrong. I have had very good results with the SB 1/16" probe and didn't really see the need for a smaller one. A smaller stylus isn't always better because in some cases, you can get plateaus where the probe shows highs and lows that aren't really on the workpiece.

While the SB probe is good, I prefer to always use the Roland scanner when the item fits. The Roland is quicker, more accurate and has many useful software features after your scanning is complete. It was of course, designed to do scanning only.

This was a bookend that I scanned in using the SB probe. 1/16" stylus, .125 stepover, measures 6X8X1.5"...as you can see I didn't give myself enough room on the X to get the whole thing. Took about 9hrs to scan. It would probably be sharper with a tighter stepover, but time would be increased. Also, I did a quick render of the points in Rhino. I'm sure it would look better if I spent the time to doctor it up a bit.


5445


5446

-Brady

[yohanpauls]

Hello!
I have found that the probe is made in ShopBottools.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12581&item=3839247 804&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
But I have not found the information on this probe in this corporation.
Could anybody give me the link to this informationes?

Thank you!
Pauls

[Brady Watson]

Yohan,
The SB-type probe is nothing more than a simple switch designed to work with the SB control box...there are no electronics involved....So if you don't have a ShopBot CNC or control box that can use this type of probe, it will be of no use. You need the software to run the probe.

-Brady

[yohanpauls]

In mainly CNC have a control program of surfacing.
But not each CNC has a probe permitting it to make.
The probes of this class are very expensive from 3000 $ and more.
But in mainly they work in one coordinate.
Probe 582PRO _ V.1 made in the ShopBotTools corporation has the good characteristics.
I have tested it.

[oldford@frontiernet.net]

OK, guys, I have the older mechanical probe, and I need some help. When removing the work from the table I bent the probe at about 45 degrees. I took the probe apart and discovered that the 2-56 machine screw that held the probe tip was bent. When I tried to replace the screw, I took the parts apart and now cannot remember the order of the parts. Especially the small leaf spring that was in there. Can anyone tell me the order of assembly? By the way, I think for the price of this probe, they could have used a better screw than 2-56...

Frank

[Brady Watson]

Frank,
You need to put the spring in the pocket, then the disc (I think there might be a triangle that fits in the pocket too...don't want to take my probe apart at the moment since I just tuned it)...OK...

Spring-> (maybe triangle) -> Disc -> Nut -> Stylus

FYI if you need replacement screws, Radio Shack has a pack of 2-56 screws in assorted lengths in one of the component drawers.

If you are in doubt as to whether you assembled it corectly, hook your test meter up to it and test for continuity. My mini RS digital meter beeps when the probe is untouched, and stops when I move the stylus. It should lose continuity when you apply some force to the stylus. This is also a good way to dial the probe in so that it makes contact equally in all directions. Turn the brass screws on the bottom of the probe to adjust contact gap.

-Brady

[old_post_frank]

Thanks for the return. I have the following parts: coil spring, triangle, disc, nut, stylus , and a small T shaped leaf spring. This is the part that confuses me. I can't figure where the leaf spring goes.

[Brady Watson]

Leaf spring goes between the disc and the nut.

[jay]

Quote "Leaf spring goes between the disc and the nut."
In what orientation? The leg of the T should be pointing in what direction or (pointing to what terminal)?

[old_post_frank]

I finally got mine back together and it now works. With the help of Brady, I was able to fix it. The small triangular circuit board was the problem. There are two copper patterns on the board, and I maid the assumption that the smaller copper island aligned with the single screw on the round circuit board. (I hope this is not confusing). Instead, the smaller copper island on the triangle aligns with one of the double screw island on the round board. I will try to draw a picture and make it available. The small leaf spring, I believe merely keeps the stylus centered in the hole. place the hole in the base of the T over the screw and the hole in the top of the T goes to one of the mounting screws. Keep the shaft of the T from crossing the isolated area in the copper patterns and touching the opposite copper. As soon as I make a drawing, I'll post here again.

[old_post_frank]

OK, I drew a picture the best I could. I hope it is not confusing. It is located at:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~oldford/probe.jpg

[Brady Watson]

OK boys and girls...Here's a few thousand words...


5447
5448

5449

[old_post_frank]

I'm not sure if I should ask this question here or not, so here goes... My probe has been working fine, now that it is fixed, but I have a question on the prbspb routine. When I start the routine, it specified a 'minimum' resolution of .25 does that mean that I can type '.4' and be ok with the routine. (.4 technically is a lower resolution than .25) or must I type in a number smaller than .25? The reason I ask is that the probe starts with a move in the Y direction and stops with the first collision. It then steps in the X direction and after the next Y collision, starts its pattern of circles. The problem is that the pattern of circles go in the -Y direction after that and the probe never hits the pattern again. After a few missed circles, the routine gives up the ghost and stops. Anyone know what gives???

[bill.young]

Hey Frank,

Minimum in that case refers to the number, not the true "resolution". So you can use a number that's larger than .25 but not smaller unless you edit the file and lower the value of that variable. Values smaller than .25" can cause problems unless the tip size is very small because they won't pull away far enough to un-trigger the switch.

As for your circling problem, I'd bet that your probe is getting false triggers when it's doing the circles and therefore thinks that it's making contact. It usually happens for 2 reasons...your move speed is too fast or the tension on your probe is too loose making it too floppy.

To test for this, move the tool out into the table somewhere so that the probe won't make contact with anything and then have it do some circles. Watch the input switch indicator on the ShopBot software and see if it blinks on and off while it's doing the circles. If so, try slowing the tool down or tightening the spring tension on the probe a little bit. If that's not it, send me an email and we'll dig a little deeper.

Bill

Oh yeah, I always forget to ask this...what version of the ShopBot software are you running?

[Brady Watson]

....Looks like Bill beat me to it!

Frank,
Are you using v2.39_m DOS or SB3 to do the probing routine? Ideally you want to use the s_prbpoly.sbp to create a closed DXF file that you can pull right into PartWizard. The other DXF file, for doing 2D profiles, only creates points...then you have to close them in CAD.

Yes, you are correct, 0.4" would be a valid value for the resolution. You can also use FE on this file and change the default resolution to a smaller value, let's say .125" resolution. When you scroll down the file, you will see where the values are for resolution. Change them and save the file. You probably don't want to go any lower than let's say .05" resolution because the probe may spin out of the part's extents (like you are encountering now). Also, make sure that your probe is set to collide with the center of the part you are going to probe. You don't want to start on a right-hand corner.

Additionally, the DXF file that you get will be offset to the outside 1/2 the diameter of your probe stylus. For example, if you use a 1/8" stylus, you will need to offset your DXF vectors by .0625 in CAD or PartWizard. It seems that the routine goes by the center of the probe, and is not compensated by the size of the stylus. The same thing goes for 3D probed files as well.

Don't be afraid to change values in the probe file...if you mess up beyond recognition...just download the file again.

-Brady

[old_post_frank]

Thanks for the help. I'm running version 2.33m in DOS. The XY speed is set to .4 and I reduced it to .3 with no change. Again, it seems that the first two +Y moves are ok but then the successive circles go off in the -Y direction. I set the resolution variable to .4 and the probe width is .25. I'm going to run some circles now and get back to you.

[old_post_frank]

You guys are good.... I ran some 3" dia circles and could detect an ever so slight flicker in the probe indicator on the screen. Seems the probe is too sensitive.... Can I tighten the spring tension by stretching it bit???

[old_post_frank]

I just ran an experiment and discovered that I may hav shot myself in the foot. The diameter of the stylus on the probe is 1/16" and it presents an offset problem when I want to cut directly from the resultant file. I made two new styli out of 1/4" brass, one I left at 1/4" and the other I turned down to 1/8". This would allow me to produce cut files for use with either 1/4" or 1/8" mill ends. It seems these new tips may be too heavy for the probe, since when I returned to the original 1/16" probe, the problem went away. I might try a lighter material than brass. I'll keep you posted...

[Brady Watson]

Frank,
Brass or aluminum is ideal for the stylus...In fact, SB shipped the older style probes with brass 1/16" and 1/8" styli.

Take some time and calibrate the probe by adjusting the set screws on the bottom of the probe body. This will adjust the swing to contact distance. It is very helpful to use a test meter set for continuity plugged into the Wago connector (or bare wires) while you are doing this so that you can test it without fearing that it will crash into your part.

The probe is nothing more than a glorified switch...and the brass screws on the bottom ground the body to the PCB. When the stylus is moved, it will break contact between the brass screw(s) and the copper plated PCB. You can fine-tune the probe so that it breaks contact with only a hair trigger...or less sensative if you are having problems keeping a good connection. It is imperative that the stylus or shaft screw is not bent ~ so either make a nice new probe or true up the existing one and go to RS and buy a bag of screws.

-Brady

[aquiloboats]

IN the beginning of this thread, Ryan had a problem with multiple z- plunges (for up to 60 sec) in the same spot. Did anyone suggest a solution?

[sambasset@shaw.ca]

I had a simmular problem when 3d probing and fixed the problem by using masking tape to hold the router from turning an a small peice from th probe the the probe chasis.it worked perfect for the jitters and false readings.
Steve

[Ryan Patterson]

I installed the new software and the edge finding files are not there. Does anyone know where i can get a copy of the edge finding files. I tried the ftp site but am not able to log on.

[wayneo]

Hi Guys,
I am interested in using the "new" probe to collect data from a 3-D surface and then be able to import that data into a program like ArtCam Pro or some other program that will allow manipulation or refining the probed surface. Does anyone have any experience or tips on how to collect the data (what format output) and how to convert to something that ArtCam can import?

Thanks,

Wayneo

[ron brown]

Wayne,

What you are trying to acheive - accuracy, shape, fit and several other factors may influence how one cares to import and manipulate a file. For fairing lines on a boat model certain rules may apply. Duplicating a carving has another, a face a third. Repitching a propeller might take a different set and style of information.

I would consider what I wanted out and work from there.

Ron

[billp]

Wayne,
I haven't tried this (yet) but hypothetically it should work;(which means YOU try it first and tell us if it does....
)
Use the Shopbot probe and save your file as a .sbp file.
Run the new converter which Bruce Clark has written to generate a .dxf file from that .sbp file (in the Windows software under (FC) file conversions).
Bring the 3D.dxf file into Artcam Pro and use the sculpting tools to manipulate it.

[billp]

Wayne,
My apologies, I just tried all of the steps mentioned above and found that I could only generate a G-code file with the converter, OR a "2D".dxf file. Anybody else have an answer?

[jay]

Withdrawn.

[jay]

Well Bill, my neighbor wants me to copy a carving of an eagle for her. The damn brass bird she gave me is about 16 x 10 inches with about 1.75 inches of height. Well before I left the shop the other night I put the bird on the table to probe . . .hmm 27.5 hours later the machine is still probing with a 1/16 inch stylus.

I am saving the file as a poly-line DXF so that I can import it into Artcam Pro and then refine the relief with the sculpting tools. It will be interesting to see how big the file ends up being. I will let you know how it goes.

After reading your post above I hope all the time is worth it.

[billp]

Wayne/Jay,
There is one trick which I KNOW will work, however it has an "add on"price to it. If you scan with the Shopbot probe, and save your .sbp file, you can then run it through "Art Read"which is a $1500 program from Delcam. it WILL read a .sbp file and then "back plot"it to an Artcam "relief" file which you can then bring into Artcam Pro and manipulate...
Jay, the right guy to ask about the polyline probing tool is Bill Young, he knows which of the "copy machine" tools will give you the proper output.

[jay]

Mr. Young, I am sure there is more than just me that would love to have your input.

[wayneo]

Hi Guys!
Thanks to all who responded. It looks as though I may have to do a little experimenting here to figure this out as well.

Jay, let us know how the "bird" turned out. WoW! 27.5 hours and still going...... It might almost be easier to take a good digital picture of it and then model it in Artcam from there!

Sounds like it might be a good idea to select a small piece to test the conversions and technique first, then go for the larger pieces. Or turn the step-over (resolution) down so it does not take so long.....

Has anyone attempted to create a probe file from the indexer? That would be very interesting to figure out!

Have-a good Day!

Wayneo

[billp]

Wayne,
You're right, start small...You really only need a few lines of code to see if the conversion works.
Bob Dodd used to probe things on the indexer, including edge profiles for duplicating spindles. But I believe he has since sold his indexer and is now playing with a laser instead...

[jsfrost]

Looking at Brady's eagle from long ago, substantial probe time might be saved by probing portions and using mirror to recover the symetrical areas. Will typical 3D software allow that?

Jim

[billp]

Jim,
I'm not sure there IS such a thing as "typical" 3D software. Usually you CAN mirror files if they truly ARE symmetrical. Problem here is that many objects that get scanned are not.(In fact I just went back and checked the last 20 files I have scanned on both the Shopbot and Picza, and NONE of them are symmetrical). And then you have to be sure that you have designated your scanning area to cover at least half (but not much more...)of the object.
In Artcam you can move reliefs in/out, and merge high/low, etc.. And I think you get those features under different names with other software such as Rhino, etc.
You would also have to be sure that your object to be probed was perfectly perpendicular to your X axis so you didn't get a "keystone" effect when you went to assemble the two mating halves.
It's a technique which CAN be used in certain instances to save time, but again your real deciding factor will be the object in question....

[wayneo]

Hi Folks,
Thought I would give you all an update on my experiences thus far... I selected a piece about 10"x12" and pretty flat except for the v-carved areas for probing. I first used the default settings of Step-Over=0.01 and let it run. It ran for about 18 hours when I decided to turn it off. It had completed probing about 12" by about 1/2". I figured 2 weeks would be a little much.

So I changed the step-over to 0.05 and that went much quicker. Still took about a day and a half!

Now I have a SB probe file and I am trying to figure out how/what I need to do to convert it into something that Artcam Pro can read or import.

Any suggestions/tips/pointers would be very welcome!

Maybe I should have probed it using DXF output???

Thanks,

Wayneo

[Brady Watson]

You have mail.

[paco]

Hi guys!

Just getting familiar with the probing with my new "home Brewed" probe and the Copy Machine virtual tool (SB3 alpha 3.4.9)... I've tried different settings and can't get it to probe faster (man this will take forever to probe a square inch); it make a probe plunge every second or so, about as a clock's pace... tick-tack-tick-tack... can it probe faster?!

So far I'm using thoses settings:


5450

[hope@roamtheearth.com]

We are currently probing a double wide seat bottom. So far it has been about 30 hours because of problems and we are only 10" into the 42" long seat! I was wondering if anyone knew if you could mirror the image. Basically we are trying to get away with only probing 21" and mirroring it over the line. We are probing it as an sbp. Any thoughts?

[zeykr]

I could swear someone posted a source for probe tips other than MSC in the last few months, but cannot find it by searching. Does anyone know of other/cheaper sources?

[rexh]

Is it possible to use a probe on an older PR machine with the older controller and software?

[Brady Watson]

Yes. Probing works just fine in the v2.38 DOS version of the software. If you look in the SB200 folder you will find several probe files ~ IE- S_prb3d2.sbp for use with SB probe doing 3D. I recommend saving it in SBP format over the DXF format...there are several options for outputting the 3D data, read each file to find one that outputs to an SBP. Once you have completed scanning your file, you can go into your office with the scanned SBP file and open it up using the Windows version of the control software in Preview mode. In there you can use the probe to surface converter to convert the SBP to a DXF that ArtCAM, MillWizard and other CAM packages can read.

Be SURE to use FE to read the header portion of the probe file to make sure that it is compatible with the normally closed SHopBot probe. Some are written for open contact switches, which you will want to avoid if you use the SB probe.

-Brady

PS - Do NOT try to zero out the probe using the zzero plate...they are on the same circuit and you will smush your probe.

[mikejohn]

If you just want to try out probing without the expense of buying a probe, try the 'knotting needle' approach.
It works just as accurately as a probe, but the object has to be foil covered (or made of conductive material)
It works fine in DOS.

...................Mike

[dgs]

Hi
i amtrying to probe a surfboard, my problem is the amount of curves and the fact that the outline is curved ,the crossection is curved and the lenght is curved.when i set the max probing depth to -6 as goes off the end . my probe goes to far down for the return probing.and it is worse as it further across.will lengthinging tne probe help ?

[bill.young]

Derek,

Try the new beta version of the Copy Machine in ShopBot Labs. One of it's new features is that it lets you limit how deep the probe can make any one plunge, without limiting the overall distance that it can plunge. It was added for a surfboard builder that had the same problem...see if it works for you (and please let me know either way).

http://www.shopbottools.com/files/LabFiles/copyupdt.htm

Bill

[dgs]

Thaanks Bill
I will give that a go, is there a way ,once I have scanned the top to get the edge finder to follow the basic curve of the top.if that makes sense

[bill.young]

Hey Derek,

At the moment there isn't a way to do it if the profile curve of the board is more than the length of the stylus...eventually the body of the probe hits the board instead of the stylus. I promised a board builder a while back that I would work on a board-probing routine for him that does that sort of "3d edgefinding" as well as centerline probing and cross sections so that he can bring the data into a 3d program...he even gave me a board to test with! So it's on the todo list...I'll see what I can do.

Bill

[dgs]

I know a guy ,using another system (wincnc),is probing the centre line of the deck and then the centre line of the bottom,and taking a few slices in a few given spots .Then edge finding .If that makes it any easier.

But keep me in the loop on that program
thanks

[Brady Watson]

Derek,
Until someone writes a routine like WinCNC (CamSoft and others use simliar techniques as well), you can extend the length of your probe stylus. If you have the newer style probe with the silver shank/ruby ball tip you can get extensions from MSC and other companies that sell Renishaw probe stylii. They are not cheap, but if you need them, they don't 'wear out'.

-B

[dgs]

Thanks Brady,
I may try make one