Quoting signs

[conceptmachine]

I have approached some local sign shop's to try and drum up some work and get asked the same question.What is your price per sqaure foot? The way i see it is each job is different so it would be hard to set a given price per foot. How do you guy's price your routed sign's? I think that most of these sign shop's are trying to compare blasted sign's to routed sign's and i cant get them to understand that there is a difference in the way the two are produced as far as the time it takes to rout versus sandblast.Should i just not try and get work from these guy's or is there a price per foot to charge for routed signs?

shawn

[jseiler]

I'd argue from the angle that price per sq foot is the most expensive way to quote and that's why your competition loves it so much.
Sandblasters have little choice, they must blast nearly every inch of a sign, and it takes a certain amount of time, material, etc.

You can do better...by clever use of software, router bits and engineering, you can do things blasters can't and often in a shorter period of time. Since time is money....

"Here's my portfolio of signs I've done and how much I charged for them. You know how much xx charges...xx dollars per foot. Depending on the project, I can do better so you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by talking with me first. If I can't save you money, I'd refer you to the best blaster in town."

I found the best book overall for developing negotiation skill is gerry spence's "How to argue and win every time." Its really not about argument, its about getting your point accross in a way that makes sense to the other person.

regards,
John

[jhicks]

As usual there's a million ways to approach it but here
s one for your consideration.
Depending on art, material, finish, size, and cutting strategy signs generally run between $100.00/ sq ft to $150.00/ sq ft.
IF you want a lower cost, then we can adapt the design to be less detailed, less dimensional work, fewer colors, or lower cost materials.
Now if you price vinyl signs they run from $10.00 to $35.00/ sq ft depending on the same issues, lead time, and what the market will bear.
Sand blast runs on average $90.00/ sq ft.
In between are materials like color core, sintra, MDO back boards, and combined vinyl and carved hybrids.
For the 2 sided signs, its about 70% of the cost on side 1.
These don't include mounting hardware, permits, or installation.
So if they want a $25.00/ sq ft sign, I send them to a vinyl shop. If they don't choke at $100.00+ then I agree to work on a design or interpret their logo etc.
Now these sign shops that want someone else to cut their sign, do nothing but stand in the middle, and mark up 2X will simply not be worth your while (at least in my opinion).
If they make 20% or so it can work.
So check the web for other on line quality signs, sandblasted wholesale, and Gemini Letters to see what things go for and make your decision to see IF you want to do that or can make any money.
But if they are shocked at $100.00+/ sq ft, then you need to either explain the value of design time, quality finishing, and excellent fabrication vbs a single coat of paint on a rushed sandblasted sign or walk away to someone who understands the difference.
This is NOT a "Bid em and get em" sale like store front vinyl! It takes some explanation, photos, examples, and as many photos as possible of designs, materials, cutting strategies, and options.

If they give you a clean design it also helps but don't count on that. They will send garbage and expect perfection.
Once you get that far, ask about gator foam letters, acrylic letters, DiBond, HDU, and logo's.
These can be cut and run at Gemini prices with quick oocal supply(no Freight) and close service at or near the List Gemini prices. Good $ there and better Cash for less work on quick turn business.



Best of luck but don't get caught in the low price trap for volume because they are still one at a time and each being unique doesn't equate to repetitive volume production volume.

[conceptmachine]

John,Jerry,
Thanks for the advice,i think these guy's i talked are looking to compare blasted to routed signs and go with the cheaper priced of the two,it's hard to convince them of the difference when all they are looking at is the price.It's probaly in my best interest to stay with the guy's that do know the difference and don't mind paying a fair price for routed sign's.
shawn

[jhicks]

Shawn, I always think about where the true value lies and what the alternatives are. For example many sandblasted signs are simply painted, masked, and blasted. That simply means the edge of those letters or art may be exposed and that paint layer (even if well primed and multiple coats of paint are applied) That sharp edge where the paint on the letter is blasted away is exposed and will deteriorate quickly. I've even seen single coat unprimed paint jobs on cheap blasted signs. It looks good for a short while but then what?
PLUS they look just like other blasted signs and have a rather common place appearance. Kind of OK but also a bit HO HUM.
At $90.00/ sq ft for sandblast one can certainly go there but for the extra premium a multi dimensional, fully painted sign is quite a value and definately an upscale image for the extra $10.00 to $40.00/ sq ft.
Here's something that might help.
The U.S. Small Business Administration says that if you have a good or product or service, and you have a lot of street traffic passing your location.
An Effective Sign is the single most important investment you will ever make.

So as far as the end customer is concerned, generally they understand the value. They know if they fade into all the other signs, they will not get noticed. I like to say you "stand out with outstanding signage".
The problem is usually a vinyl shop doesn't understand value. They only focus on how fast and how much?

Ask them what they would sell it for....and see what they say. Then you can at least get a feel for local prices.
Select sign shops and owners usually the independents understand and really sell quality, service, and value but the typical franchise shop is really a better candidate for "cut and deliver" type products like letters, odd shapes like circles, ovals, and more artistic back boards they can apply vinyl to.
The challenge is to train them on the value but even then they want to mark up 100% for simply passing along some marginal art files and the hurry up order to a supplier.
Trust me, there is better business out there.
get your photos, get a few very nice signs hung, get your process and techniques down, and before long word of mouth will be your best sales rep.

[jhicks]

I failed to mention one other important consideration. One can make up nice samples at their own expense as you learn techniques. OR one can take orders at even reduced costs and work on someone elses $. At least that way someone is paying for your education, you learn how to design, make, and finish, plus better understand the true time to accomplish the entire project.
So making a little or no $ but getting paid to learn or pay for bits is sometimes better (especially when starting out) than having nothing to work on or paying for all the time and material out of your own pocket.
Just know what the competitive prices are so as you learn, you dial up the prices to make a profit for all your time, equipment, and skills.