Long 1/8" Cutter

[webbhead]

Was wondering where to get a decent straight cutter with 1/8 dia. & 1-1/2" cutting length. I've been cutting some sweet 2x12 redwood & cedar, & I've been using a RotoZip spiral bit with a couple flutes for the final perimeter cut. Anyway, the edge finish requires more sanding than I'd want, & I know I can do better.

Been getting my bits from www.woodbits.com (http://www.woodbits.com) cuz they're cheap, produce clean cuts, & seem to be holding up well. Problem is my max depth on 1/8" 2 flute is 1/2" & they don't carry anything deeper. Not enough to tak'er down to 1.48" before final cutaway with the exacto. There's a vast difference in cut quality between the 1/8" 2 flute & the Rotozip... but I had to get orders out before Christmas... & didn't want the perimeter cut done with 1/4" dia.

Couldn't find anything at MSC, Onsrud, Hersaf, or Hartlauer... but was probably not 'asking the right question'.

Any help here would be much appreciated... Thanx in advance
John Webb
Paradise, CA

[Brady Watson]

John,
I get extra long 1/8" bits from my local supplier. They are much stiffer than the RotoZip bits and they have a nice sharp bottom unlike the RZ ones. They have a cutting depth of 1" and are 2" long. I have used them in Red Oak successfully...and make the RZ bits look like a joke.

The tool is made by OSG Tap & Die Glendale Heights, IL. PN 482-1250 There is a sales office in Placentia, CA 714.528.9209 They could probably tell you where your local distributor is. The quality of these tools are top shelf. On par with Onsrud tools at 25-50% the cost of the same identical grind.

I can't find the invoice for the last ones that I bought, but I believe that they were around $11 each...My supplier carries tools identical to the ones you'd find at MSC, but at 35-60% less. It's my new favorite store!

-Brady

[Brady Watson]

Oh...and Harvey Tool also has a very nice selection of specialty bits that you are not likely to find anywhere else (catalog just fell out of the OSG catalog that I had...)

www.harveytool.com (http://www.harveytool.com)

-Brady

[jthelen]

John,
I got some 6 inch long ball tip bits from this guy for a project once. He has a good selection of different bits. I think they were carbide, and reasonably priced too . http://www.rlschmitt.com/
Jim

[Brady Watson]

I just bought some OSG 1/8" dia 1/2" LOC carbide upcut spirals from my dealer for $5.30 ea....Be sure to shop around. End mills are cheaper than router bits when you can substitute them, do so.

Then again...I just ordered some diamond coated ones at $49 ea for cutting carbon fiber...

-Brady

[paco]

Brady-(and other)-
Do they cut as good (End mills)? What about wood machining?... and plastics? I'm wondering about the grind shape, flute design, rake angle...

[Brady Watson]

Most of the endmills that I get are upcut spirals. Thus far they have been superior in quality and price than an upcut 'router' bit...of which there is no difference other than price. The only differences that you may find are the helix angles for shearing metals compared to woods and plastics. I haven't encountered any problems in any material yet.

I have used these bits in just about everything so far. But, as with anything, you have to use the right tool for the job. I still like a good old straight bit for general cutting. I use the end mills when I need chip extraction or when I can get away with a spiral tool.

It appears that many places like Onsrud in particular sell router bits...and then charge exorbitant prices for them when in reality they are just end mills. I have compared some of the OSG tools with the Onsrud tools that I have...comparable tools have identical grinds. The Onsrud tools, aside from specialized applications, are typically 25-80% higher in price than what my supplier has been able to sell them to me for. I think that is ridiculous...The $95 1/2" ballnose I bought from Onsrud last year only costs me $26 i a comparable OSG...and it's Tin coated to boot. I bought an Onsrud 1/8" ballnose upcut bit from them as well for $26...the same identical geometery bit is $9 at my local supplier.

Of course, I'm not saying that Onsrud doesn't make a high-quality bit, and am not sharing this info to brag. I just want to illustrate to you guys that you should really shop around and visit your local industrial supplier to see if you can get quality bits at a more reasonable cost. If you can get a $95 tool for $26, then you just put about $50 in your pocket and still got the job done. The economy isn't exactly superb right now...so shop around!

-Brady

[paco]

I'll be looking for that... Thanks! I know what I could do with that money!!!

[webbhead]

Thanks for the info. guys. I need to order something quick cuz I got an order for a cedar sign at 3'x2' to be constructed from 2x12, so I have to figure out a binder/backer that will hold 2 - 2x12 boards together on the backside. Until now, I've just done single panel fairly simple signs. See specs. in new post this eve. - John Webb

[geneM (Unregistered Guest)]

have you guys tried the "allwood cedar " sign blanks

GREAT product

I get them from "harbor sales" in maryland
also Vinle sign supplies carries them

the best thing is that the cost of the blank compares to the price of the lumber before the labor to glue them up

seriously, I have used hundreds of these with only one defect. that one was replaced the next delivery day with no questions asked.

FANTASTIC product
http://www.allwoodsignblanks.com/

try it you'll like it

gene marshall

[paco]

Gene,
that is something I was looking for!

[joe]

Gene,

Are the panels from Allwoods laminated small pieces of lumber? Like 2"X2" 18" pieces. Also, are they finger jointed?

It seems to me that we ordered something like that, years ago, and found them unusable for sandblasting due to the differences in hardness. Also, the finger joints were very obvious.

Like Paco I would be interested in a good panel product.

J

[billp]

Joe,
As Gene has said these blanks arrive ready to go, NO planing,sanding needed. The edges are glued with no finger, or other jointing, and they are clean, ( see attached photo..) I just open the box ( each one is shipped in it's own box which also makes a VERY convenient shipping carton for the finished sign), paint it when asked ( I HATE to paint such beautiful blanks, BUT....), and then use the Avery paint mask to do my lettering, etc.
And as Gene also points out it would probably cost a lot more to just GET the material and prepare the blank. They sell them in a wide range of sizes,( my blanks are measuring in at 1.625"thick, and random widths) and it's a lot easier to know your material cost up front when bidding on a job....

5557

[geneM (Unregistered Guest)]

here is another...

Bally is a company that sells red oak and maple blanks, the same as allwoods but in hardwood.

hardwwod glue ups often cup like crazy, these are very stable

these are available to us from Fesenden hall
our plywood supplier.

we are cuuently carving a s**tload of these for a large commercial client
we ordered hundreds of square feet and are very happy.

here is the link
http://www.mapleblock.com/

cheers and happy cutting

geneMarshall

[joe]

Thanks Guys,

Looks like a good source for panels. We still have requests for wood panels signs but have been selling tword HDU. There isn't anything that looks as good as wood however.


Joe

[pete]

Bill P. Why and how do you use the Avery paint mask with your signs please? After routing as a mask to paint the letters or cover the letters and paint the background or ???. Thanks, Pete

[billp]

Pete,
The usual technique is to first paint the main body of your sign blank with the final color you want it to be. In an ideal world you would wait overnight, and then you apply the Avery ( or any other paint mask, I think you'll find a few threads on the Forum where people have different favorites...).
THEN I carve through the mask as you can see in the attached pix. Once I have carved the letters/image/etc. I do my painting. Once the paint is completely dry ( overnight preferably) I peel off the mask, and the result is usually MUCH cleaner than I could ever hope to do by hand.
I am having a problem uploading both of these files so I will try to do them separately..

[billp]

OK, I give up. I have tried 6 times to upload images that were as small as 4K, with NO luck. Anyone got any ideas?

[billp]

5558
5559

[geneM (Unregistered Guest)]

beutiful signs Bill

I too have had trouble uploading attachments

to all,

If you use the cheaper sign mask... store it in a garbage bag, in a VERY dry area.
the Avery is great (vinle base), but the slightest moisture will rapidly ruin the entire roll of the paper stuff.

once again, great work Bill

I still want to buy you lunch, when you have time
cheers
gene

[pete]

Bill, thanks for the explanation and well done on the signs. Do you do a mixture of hand and spray painting (can or gun). The red border, for example, brush painted? Thanks, Pete

[billp]

Pete,
On these ( there were four identical signs) I rolled the blue color on with some of those very fine,white rollers you get at the Depot/Lowes, etc. ALL of the color on these signs were done in "One Shot" sign enamels.
I then did the rest of the painting by hand. I would have liked to use an HVLP gun , but at the Sign Show the "One Shot" paint rep told me that spraying their product would have given me a very thin coating, compared to the roller method. These signs were also a little too large for my home made spray booth, so I would have had airborne enamel to deal with ( even HVLP still has "bounce" when you paint enamels..). I don't really enjoy the painting part of all this, and when I can I try to do only the cutting part ( I'd rather do the cut, and be done with the job, than spend DAYS doing the final prep/paint work). Maybe I don't like painting because I'm not as proficient as a lot of full time sign guys out there, or maybe I'm not as good as them because I don't like the process, hard to tell.
Given my druthers I would have taken those cedar blanks from earlier in this thread ( which were the actual blanks I carved the Hiram signs on) and hit them with a sealer coat of epoxy. Then I would have brushed 2-4 coats of a marine varnish over that. It's a technique from my old boatbuilding days that really holds up.After masking the blank THEN I would have painted in the "gold"lettering ( here's a quick tip; don't use One Shot "gold" as it looks like mustard, instead use their "metallic brass" which looks just like gold leaf..)
Painting such beautiful wood seems like a real waste of a great resource to me, BUT it's what the job called for...

[bleeth]

Hi Bill: Nice sign-I love the look of the tree. Did you cut a 2.5 file after you did the outline and other v-bit work or is it faux paint effect-It's hard to tell from the jpg.

I was thinking of you and Gene this morning as I ambled off to work in my T-shirt & shorts!

Dave

[billp]

Dave,
It's sort of a "Faux dry brush" attempt on my part.As mentioned above I'm not very well versed in painting techniques, so in desperate times I have to wing it..I just kept brushing on strokes in different directions with a brush that had almost no paint on it. Then when that dried I got a different color and layered strokes in opposite directions etc. What seemed to work was the idea of transparency, as long as I could still see the underlying colors, it started to build up depth.
Admittedly someone with even minimal skills in airbrushing could probably have done a much cleaner,faster job of it, and I am trying to enroll in a local class next month. Seems like painting is a necessary part of the package...
When you were thinking of us up here in New Jersey did you see the snow that is falling (again) this AM ? I also go to work in T-shirts and shorts, but they are under jeans, a down vest, ANOTHER down vest, and a sweatshirt.....

[geneM (Unregistered Guest)]

thermals
carharts
BDU feild coat
woolcap
gloves
wool socks
boots

warm up the truck
scrape the windows

wade thru the ice

thanks dave

[mikejohn]

2 foot of snow, more to come,-28 Centigrade (very cold fahrenheit
)
.......Mike