Designing

[joe]

I've often wondered how artists begin a project and the steps to final proposal.

I suspecious most of us seasoned guys begin with the same, which is drawing. However as I mature, pre-visualization is more and more available and shortens the time. There I can review my colors, change them up and make very effecient decisions prior to paper. I enjoy the mental process more and more but have to watch it when working directly with a client. I can quickly drift off. And have.

I've met a few artists who mentally work out the whole design process. I'm not talking about Savant's. That a literal rendition. All of us rely on this process, more or less. I think it can be acquired. The easiest is a review of color renditions. Reviewing the differentials, possabilites is seldom done by any method. That field, color associations, is very under used.

I assume our younger generation, who is much more computer savy, is able to go directly there. I don't see why it wouldn't work. After all the limits are no longer in the medium.

When I jump right into my computer design program, the whole thing looks too stiff and mechanical to me. Sure need help in this area.

J

[patricktoomey]

Joe,

I go straight to the computer for even my initial sketches thanks to a Cintiq monitor. You can see one here... http://www.coolgraphicstuff.com/store/index.php?cat=2
(Disclaimer: I bought mine locally and know nothing about the store I linked to above. I'm not recommending any store, just wanted to show what it looks like.)
They are expensive but it makes the computer more like working on paper since you can use the radio stylus pen to draw directly on it. I use lots of different software including Painter, Illustrator and Photoshop to do my initial sketches. From there I usually make some color swatches by painting some blobs of the main colors for the project and then mixing them using wet brush edges in Photoshop. I can then make multiple versions of those color sets to show the client along with the sketches. I also do previsualization using different software such as Rhino. ArtCam and VCarve Wizard also both have excellent preview renders that are great to show clients, especially after a little touch up in Photoshop.

I see how you would feel more constrained with the computer since it is more rigid than just sitting down with pen and paper but if you look at something like the Cintiq monitor, I think you can get to a point where you are more comfortable with the computer in the initial design phase than you are with paper. The ability to undo each stroke of the pen, rotate, stretch, etc. is amazing. I couldn't imagine using it at first, now I can't imagine living without it.

I hope this gives you some ideas that you can use

Patrick

[joewino]

Joe, us old guys probably do things the way we are most comfortable with, although there may be a better way.

I still believe that you can work out a lot of design problems with a pencil and paper before you touch the computer. My thoughts seem to flow better with making rought sketches...and I mean really rough, not anything that is even recognizable to anyone but me. It's a lot quicker than trying to produce an idea on the monitor.

This is not done for very simple projects, like banners, "For Sale" signs and such, but rather the higher end stuff.

Like Joe, the computer seems to make my work stiff looking and mechanical if I haven't got some idea of where I'm going before I boot up the machine.

Even while I'm talking with a customer the wheels are turning and I'm already getting an idea of what I want to produce. Very rarely, will I sketch anything in front of the customer other than just a rough outline of shapes or a general idea of the image I want to produce.

In no way will I allow the client to stand behind me and "help me" as I work on the computer. You relegate the designing process to the customer when that happens and you become the "McDonald order taker".

My problem is that while working on one design I will think of two or three others ways that might look good and then start chasing rabbits all over the place and end up with six or seven layouts...and that's not good. Too confusing for the client. Two or, at the most, three designs should be shown to the customer. Usually, I try to present just one and may offer suggestions as to possible changes, but not in a visual form.

Designing has always been the most exciting part of the project for me, and still is even after over 40 years. The hard part is actually producing the design and getting it installed.

[tuck]

Joe, the pencils and sketch pads still have a very valuable place in my personal studio. I have found that putting pens and pencils to paper is not only something I still enjoy, but it also helps me to engage my "creativity" as well. I may do 3 or 4 thumbnail sketches to get a feeling of what I want to do before I jump on my computer and do a "presentation drawing" for a customer. I never thought about them (computer) looking too stiff or mechanical and neither have my customers. The circles, archs, ovals and ellipses are all perfect and I tell them, "what you see is what you get". If they say, "Ok, but change this, change that, make that bigger, make this smaller, etc,...", I say, "Ok, no problem! I'll have a print of what you're asking for real soon." Once they approve the design, I"m just a few minutes away from cranking up my Bot and going to town.

[joe]

Thanks Patrick, that sure sparks my interest. I have 9"X12" Wacom but use it mainly for node editing. Although I have the ability to draw with pressure sensativety, and use of an airbrush, it hasn't become very important to me.

I've read about the Cintiq for some time but you are the first person who has given me a first hand critique. I know it's very expensive and before I plunk down the buck I'd like to give it a test flight.

Thanks for posting.

J

[joe]

Jut Sold!

www.letterville.com (http://www.letterville.com)
Portfolio
Raymond Chapman

Here are a couple of drop deap gorgeous designs that our new member Raymond C. just sold. Another concept hit right out of the ball park. How does he do that?

J

[joewino]

Thanks for the nice words, Joe. How do I do that? Well...you ought to know - you've been doing the same thing for years.

And he's a lot older than me, too.

After over 40 years in the sign business, it still is exciting and challenging. A whole lot better than having to work for a living.

[joe]

One of my hero's is Dan Sawakski and I'd like for someone, who knows him well, to suggest a Letterhead event way up there. Wouldn't it be fun to camp out in beautiful BC, and get a first hand view of his shop and his handy work.

He's such a good guy that he'd probably welcome me over, but it's so much better when there's a group of tallented folks asking questions and sharing information.

Perhaps someone, Raymond, at the Internation Sign Museum "Grand Opening, could start a whisper campaign along this line. I guess one shouldn't invite themselves over. Still it would be an unforgetable event. I'd suggest "Router Wars" if I didn't have to get involved. Whissss whissss whissss p e r i n g .

[joe]

One of my hero's is Dan Sawakski and I'd like for someone, who knows him well, to suggest a Letterhead event way up there. Wouldn't it be fun to camp out in beautiful BC, and get a first hand view of his shop and his handy work.

I've never used any concrete and would like to see his products up close. Another thing with this guy is his ability to organize.

Perhaps someone, Raymond, at the Internation Sign Museum "Grand Opening, could start a whisper campaign. Whissss whissss whissss pering

[joewino]

Is there an echo in here?

Joe - others have suggested the same thing to Dan. He has said that when he gets a little further along with the project (railroad, home, etc) that he plans to host a Letterhead gathering. I agree that it would be a blast.

Knowing Dan, he would welcome you with open arms anytime you wanted to visit. Just don't plan on getting much sleep.

[rookie432]

Router Wars would be fun. I know there are way more talented sign guys and router guys out there than I, but it would be a great learning experience and a chance to push the threshhold of trying new things as well as learn something from each other. I find that friendly competition really produces some pretty good fruit because we start to think way outside the box.
The rules should only be that you have to use your router in some capacity to complete the project and you have to document in "step by step" format how you did it including all materials and supplies. This way we all learn something while having fun.

Just my wispering 2cents

[joewino]

For those that may be interested - Dan Sawatzky is a great sign maker up in Canada and uses a MultiCam for parts of his work. He is also a great friend.

When he received his router some time ago there were others who challenged him to come up with some really unique work - a Router War....but it never actually developed into anything.

Then when I bought my ShopBot, I renewed the Router War idea by firing over the bow of Dan's MultiCam. This is all documented on the Letterville bulletin board (for sign folks...and anyone else interested). After my ShopBot is delivered, set up, and I have some time to become acquainted with it, Dan and I will have a great, good-natured war seeing who can out-do the other.

I see it as a David-Goliath battle....with me being David, of course.

[jhicks]

Raymond, If you are David, I must be the dust in Joe & your sandals BUT, I too would love to play in the war games. Like Bill, the Challenge, experience, and education would be worth more than any Blue Ribbon at the end. Plus it sounds like a whole bunch of FUN!

[joe]

Dan's handy work was published in last months SignCraft magazine. The examples were done in the first month of his router experience. He's really something else.

Some of you may recognize the letter "A" which was the magazines front cover. I displayed it here a couple months ago.

This chap is so far ahead of me, I'd feel out of place with a challenge to keep up. When Raymond gets up to speed I'm gonna go down there and copy every thing he does.

Anyone who is interested in seeing some top notch quality signage should visit www.letterheadfonts.com (http://www.letterheadfonts.com) and then go to the Gallery area. This area hosts some of the best artists work being done today. It's huge. Just click on anyone of the featured signmakers to see examples of their work.

J
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)