Hdu advice

[rej]

i got a job for 60 37"x9"x1.5" trail signs.
owner insists on 1.5" material so i plan on using hdu design board. these will be mounted to posts at each end.
here is the problem- i am not getting good smooth results on the paint job, so i called a respected body shop in the area and they want 40.00 per sign to paint them. well, thats not in the budget. have any of you outsourced paint jobs?
if so, what type of costs are fair?
i was painting on one shot, but i'm thinking of going with a porter acryillac latex. does it go on smoother- i.e. less brush strokes.
thanks for any advise.
robert

[cartar929]

Hey Robert,
You should post a snap-shot of your issue so that people can get a little better understanding of your struggle.
I would assume that if you aren't getting good results with one-shot then you would probably get worse results when you using latex.
I would suggest something for you but I'm not sure exactly what your problem looks like.

[rej]

the problem is brush strokes.
i can't seem to get rid of them

[billp]

Could you use foam brushes on this job? No bristles, no stroke marks...
As "c" mentions above a picture will help all of us "diagnose" the issue...

[rej]

i will post a pic tonight. i'm at the shop and the blank is at home with the camera.
i can use a foam brush. i am thinking the primer coat is the problem. i must not have applied it properly. this is our first time with hdu.
thanks for any help.

[GlenP]

Robert, go for the porter and use foam brush. A customer and friend of mine creates beautiful signs and uses mostly acrylic paints and as much of porter as he can. We can't get it up here in Canada but he drives down to the states and buys it and brings it home. He hates one shot. For painting HDU we put on one coat of 100 % acrylic primer (we use Ben Moore fresh start) sand with 320, prime again. This gives you a better base to build your topcoats on. We use Ben Moore 100% acrylic top coat tinted to spec colour. The porter is better than Ben Moore according to my friend. YOu can use foam brushes to put the acrylic on. 100% starts to flash (setup) quick so put it on and don't muck with it or you will have alot of marks. We also have a primer tined grey for dark top coat areas to help with coverage.
Email if you have any problems. Grab a scrap of HDU and try techniques. Don't be afraid of acrylic paint but make sure you use 100% acyrlic. It stands up to the outdoors better. Email me a pic of your blank. Good luck

[chipster]

Robert

What about spraying them? This supplier has videos that may help. I have some of their finished samples and they look great.

http://www.precisionboard.com/Sign/default.htm

Maybe I'm thinking this way because I just got an HVLP and now everything in the world looks like it needs sprayed????

[joewino]

Spraying with a HVLP would solve some of your problems.

I would suggest that you need some backer to the HDU because it would be easy to snap a sign that size in two without much effort.

It's possible to brush acrylics without a lot of brush strokes but a little practice is necessary. Patience is the main ingredient.

[rej]

i am trying some different ways of doing this.
i have never spyed on paint before.
and i can't get over how the paint shops act like i'm bothering them. i guess this weather has gotten them busy.
the primer we have is jay moore sign primer.
tomorrow i'm going to get some porter paint.
5678

[coach]

There is a product used for mixing into paint when spraying. I think it is called "flowtrol."
I believe this can be used, or a similar product that helps alleviate brush strokes.
Personally I spray everything with a turbine sprayer. Easy to use.

[GlenP]

Raymond is Joe okay? He hasn't chimed in or posted in awhile. I miss his expert advice. It is not like him not to post or help on sign issues. Maybe he is still chasing those dollars. Joe we need your advice here....looks like David may need some post holes to. Orders are backing up

[cabnet636]

40 is too much for a primer and base coat, once you learn how to spray you will be doing it like an old hand. fine home building (taunton press) has a good simple video called "spray basics" it is well worth the 20.00 and with a basic top feef hvlp gun from lowes you can get started.


you can spend money on accuspray guns later!!

jim

[rej]

bought a spray gun today. will spend the day tomorrow spraying paint.
i figure after a few hours i will be able to paint your car. Any takers?

[cabnet636]

thin enough to go thru the gun, thick enough to get a coat, first may absorb a bit, let it dry and build coats, best not to put toooo much on

jim

[rej]

i am getting the jest of it.
easier than i expected.
will post more pics in a few days.
i will get this painting down, i have decided that the carving of the hdu is a dream, but the finishing can be a nightmare.
can you leave the hdu alone for the background and then paint the designed parts?

[signtist]

Robert, I think your making this harder than it actually is.
Route the letters into it- maybe 1/8" deep (pocket). If only making 1 - use a stiff fitch brush to paint the color of lettering only. You could spray for much faster results on 60 signs. Use a HVLP spray gun (Harbor Freight sell good cheap ones-$50-$60) Spray in the letters from 4 directions to cover everything.
Then use a short nap roller to paint the rest of the sign.
It leaves the letters nice and clean.
I use the disposable 3" SurLine rollers. An old used one works better because the nap is pounded down even shorter. John www.signgraphics1.com (http://www.signgraphics1.com)

[mike_starks]

I have been using 1-shot for 20 years and it is a fantastic product (this is application problem).First dont use a 1.00 paint brush from harbor freight and expect a sprayed on look. It will flow and smooth out with a additive called Darby's thinner from PCP 1-800-752-0028. If you want the hard finish add 1-shots hardener it will speed drying and make a finish that will outlast any other product on the market. Stay away from mineral spirits as a thinner (it keeps the product soft). If you do roll it use a cheap foam roller to cover your surface, then wait a minute after rolling & when the bubbles come to the surface, reroll with no pressure to knock down the bubbles (then the darbys will make it flow out and the finish will look like it was sprayed.) Its all about the chemical additives when it comes to 1-shot.Painting hdu success has always been the pre-priming stage. Good luck. Ps i am looking to buy a cnc, let me know if there is one on the west coast available Mike@sohasign.com (mailto:Mike@sohasign.com)

[Gary Campbell]

Mike...
This one showed up in a Craigs list search (West Coast)

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/1553885224.html
Gary

[joewino]

Just as a side note, I would not recommend using One Shot enamels. It is true that at one time they were the best thing on the market - I started using them 50 years ago.

With new regulations and the removal of lead, the One Shot paints of today are a lot different that what I used in my youth. The new formulas have a tendency to fade quickly and chalk badly. The blues especially will chalk and turn to a dull blue green over time. Black has a drying problem and sometimes will flake off a hard surface.

After almost 40 years of being a faithful One Shot ambassador I switched to 100% acrylic (water based) and have had much greater success, especially in the hot Texas climate.

[toych]

Raymond,
What brands of acrylic are you using in place of One Shot? I have been getting good results with one shot but none of my work has been outdoors for more than 18 months. So far so good.

Darren

[rej]

raymond- are you spraying ,rolling, or brushing?
and do you use primer?
are you sanding?
are you painting the blank first, then mask, cut and paint the letters?
i am trying different methods including the foam brush as mentioned above.
thanks for the heads up on one shot.

[joewino]

Our favorite brand of acrylic is Porter 100% acrylic. They cover better than any other brand we have tried and do not fade as quickly. Their deep colors do not have to have four or five coats as were necessary with other types.

Also, the paint stays usuable all the way to the bottom of the can. With some others we found that they clot up and become like cottage cheese before the gallon is used up.

Sherwin Williams Super Paint is also used sometimes. Whatever brand, always buy the top of the line 100% acrylic.

Our dimensional sign process may be different that the rest of you guys. We don't do a lot of V-carving, but most of our work is dimensional in layers. Letters are routed separately and painted separately, then assembled with the rest of the sign. Panels and such are handled the same way. With this process we are not constantly having to paint one color up to the edge of another.

Normally we route the background so that the letters stand out. Some type of texture is added to that background, usually a woodgrain look.

Although it is not necessary to prime HDU, we normally do so that we can work with a smoother finish. We spray everything with FSC88-WB filler/primer from Coastal Enterprises with a HVLP spray gun. The primer dries quickly and then is lightly sanded. The background color is then sprayed in the same way.

Trim, inlines and other small panels that are a part of the base sign are brushed with synthetic bristle brushes made for water based paints. Two coats are necessary for most of the work we produce.

For large, flat signs we roll the paint using a 3/8" nap roller cover.

I've never been a fan of the paint, mask, cut and paint method, although I know several folks that use it successfully.

[rej]

raymond,
i bought the porter 100% paint. we are lucky and have a porter store nearby.
i primed a blank and used 400 grit on it. then another coat and will sand it. then we will roll on the porter.
i also sprayed a primed blank and will put another coat on it tomorrow.
however, the edges of the one i sprayed did not accept the paint. how are you getting the paint to stay on the edges?
the edges of the one we rolled last week had the paint stay on better.

[cabnet636]

are the edges rolled a bit or a sharp angle. even a small eased edge will take paint better

jim

[rej]

the sample was straight but the real signs will be slightly rolled over
i will roll them over and spray again

[cabnet636]

a sharp edge is like a knife to drying materials as the material contracts instead of drying even it cuts.

jim

[joewino]

As paint dries it has a tendency to pull away from sharp edges. We usually round over the edges - just sandpaper on HDU or a 1/4" round over bit on MDO. With the sharp edge removed the paint will have a continous film all over.

It's just a little thing but will prolong the life of the sign.

[rej]

well the process of learning things new at my age (52) is a challenge. it is a very good challenge, because i feel sorry for people who sit home after work and do nothing. go to the same job everyday and do the same thing. buying a shopbot for my sign business is one of the best things i have ever done.
and holding camps is really a great experience.
get to meet people from all over.
get to learn from very smart people.
get my frustration questions answered- you know, the ones that keep you up at night.

all this fun and a chance to make money from the signs, what a deal.
thanks for all the replies and i will post again when i have some pics in a few days.