Best bang for the advertising dollar?

[jshoes51]

For a small one-man sign shop in a rural state (Maine) located about 20 miles from the state's largest city (pop 70,000), what's your opinion of the best places to advertise? Yellow pages, web site, local newspaper, glossy magazines (Downeast Magazine, Maine Boats Homes and Harbors Magazine), vinyl wrap on vehicle, penny savers, home show or trade show booth?

Thanks

[joe]

Jim,

Good question! I've been where you are and tried several advertising techniques.

Let me first say, that depends on several things.
What are your skills and where do you want to go with it.

Are there any local industriest for your work?

For what I do, which is custom signs, the yellow pages aren't very important. For Example; A few years ago I took out a 1/4 page in the book and got a free, one line listing of any service. So I put in carved signs under my fax number. I got more calls from the single line than the big expensive ad.

Here's my technique. Identify a realistic product line, and customer base. Make the best samples possible and go see them. Make some samples to give away.

Get a good website showing your products. Nothing fancy, just the real thing.

Just my thoughts.

www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[jshoes51]

Joe,

After 25 years in the remodeling business, I'm ready to do something else. I bought a used 5'x10' shopbot 18 months ago as an exit strategy, and the first job it lead to kept me busy for 10 months full time (cutting all the forms, panels, bulkheads, and foils for and building a 22' trimaran for a customer). Now after 18 months of playing around and learning the machine and software, I'm ready to take the next steps to getting a sign and cnc business going. I already have a few repeat customers (trail signs for a hiking organization and worktables for a machine assembler), and I've done a few signs and house plaques, mostly as gifts, many for free, and some as charitable donations.

My interest in signs goes back almost 20 years when I took a sign carving course at Jay Cooke's sign shop in Vermont.

I have Vectrics Partworks and Partworks 3d, and just got Aspire in mid-December. I set up a website (www.saltwaterworkshop.com (http://www.saltwaterworkshop.com)) a year ago, but it doesn't show up on any google searches yet, so it's only utilized as a site I can send people to through another type of ad or from my business card.

I check the shop bot forums almost daily as time allows, and I'm awaiting registration now for your design workshop at Gary's site.

As for the area and my customer base, Maine is vacationland, and many small, trendy business come and go every year. There are several areas of high end boutiques, antique stores, restaurants and shops such as the Old Port in Portland as well as places like Kennebunkport, Wells/Ogunquit, Freeport, Wiscasset, etc along the coast. Also along the ocean there are the usual multi-million dollar waterfront homes. I feel these and other small businesses in the area are my target market. It's problematic to know when and where a new shop is going to open up, so going to them with my product is going to be difficult. I have to anticipate where the owners are going to look for a sign maker and get my name in front of them that way. That's why I was thinking the yellow pages would be a good start, but I'll consider any and all advice.

Thanks,

Jim

[terryjones]

Jim,
I have tried many forms of advertising and have found bright colorful vinyl on my truck gets more response than anything I have tried. I have a black truck with white lettering and a yellow and orange logos. Tailgate with name and number. At the stop sign, you can's help but read my tailgate. I average 3 calls a week.
About finding new businesses being built. Go to the city counsel meetings. They have to approve all proposed building of business. Then after the new company asks for approval your the first in their face after acceptance. Added bonus, you get to know the contractors and do signage for them also.

Good luck,
Terry

[signsbyjay]

Jim,

One of my best results came from joining a business networking group. contact your local Chamber of commerce, they usually know of several in any area. We meet one a week for lunch, everyone introduced them selves, told a little bit about their business, Then there was a speaker ( a member or an outside guest ) who gave a longer presentation about their area of expertise. Not only do you get your name infront of others who may need your business, you also gain several FREE salespeople.

[butch]

Jim
I had some furniture on consignment at a few stores. People see my work and contact me. But look at local craft shows. I am enrolled in 'Made-In-Montana' and will try to attend a local 'Home and Garden' show this fall. I know people see your work and will contact you. I agree yellow pages don't seem to do what they use to. There use to be one phone book, and now there are 6 or so and have lost their worth.
Look at ways to get posted on search engines. I did some work on that and now google and yahoo can find my site.

[jhicks]

Jim, try asking yourself, family, and friends where they go when they are searching for something. I would bet 99% will say "the net".
There are search engine subscriptions to engines and resources like signsearch, and another one but signsearch subscription costs about $125.00 and up to get listed and have photos and a profile.
Other wise pay attention to key words on your web site to have some "relevance" and look for free listings in directories like blue book, Kelly, and many others.
try to add your web site listing and profile to one new free directory a week and before you know it, you'll be well circulated and folks will find you.
Just get a web page up as soon as you can and there are many options for that as well that with few skills you can do all by yourself very inexpensively.
Good Luck

[jshoes51]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Lots of good ideas. As they say, only 10% or something like that of the advertising dollar does any good. It's just knowing which 10% it is.

Jerry, can you give me an example of these free directories? If I can find them I'll subscribe to 10 a day instead of one per week. Nothing else much going on around here now anyways, so it's an excellent time to earn some sweat equity, so to speak.

Jay, a friend is in a networking group. He's been trying to get me to join as a remodeling contractor. They already have a signmaker in the fold, and won't take another one.

Thanks all,

Jim

[blackhawk]

I am only botting for money as a side business since I still work full time. I have been advertising the cheap way. I have a magnetic sign on my truck and my wife's car. I put ads in the weekly local "trader" paper, which is free. I also have several stores and businesses that let me keep cards and brochures on their counters. I also have a website and added it to several search engines. In 8 months, I have had one call result from all the above advertising. The only luck that I have had with cheap advertising is cold calls where I hand out a brochure and show them samples of my work.

[joe]

You have a good future ahead. Now that you let us know about your attendance at Jay's workshop I know you understand the beauty of the sign business.

Keep us posted on your success.

[signsbyjay]

Jim,

Ask your friend who sponsors his networking group.
They usually have more than one for that very reason. And don't forget to tell EVERYONE you meet about your business, you never know where that next job is going to come from.

[wberminio]

In 25 years,the best advertising has been letter on my van.I've gotten more calls saying, "they always see "one" of my trucks around.My lettering is similar to Terry's.
All other advertising as been a waste of time and $$$$.
Advertisers say "One" customer will pay for this ad.I tell them,If they are so sure,I'll pay them after I get the paying customer.I'll even put it in writing! So far they all think I'm nuts.Maybe I am,but I know I have to guarantee my work!

Erminio

[jshoes51]

Erminio, I think this is where I'll spend my first advertising dollars...a van wrap. When I had the name of my remodeling company on my van, people would tell me they saw my ad on television!

[wberminio]

Jim
I can "guarantee" that will be your best investment.

Erminio

[jhicks]

www.kellysearch.com (http://www.kellysearch.com), www.woodindustry.com (http://www.woodindustry.com), www.merchantcircle.com (http://www.merchantcircle.com), www.woodshopnews, local.yahoo.com

try some of these, the key is getting on as many relavent sites with your web site as possible to get some exposure.

[phil_o]

How about the small local weekly ad newspapers? Anyone have experience with them. They're usually good for selling used items. I don't know about services.
Craigslist.com is very popular and it's free. Might be worth a shot.

[joe]

Phil,

It all depends on what you want to offer.

I've always wanted to be engaged in creative work and offer products which requires skill and thought.

For those of us who dabble with this kind of life style, the local weekly isn't likely to be affectve.

Life is so very short. A person should reach for the heights.

[woodworx]

When it comes to marketing, there is no one answer that will catapult your products into overdrive. That even includes paying ad agencies thousands of dollars to get you known. The idea when you are starting out is to get by with paying as little as possible. You are spending money to get customers with a smaller chance of hooking a job than selling one to a previous customer that has been happy with your work. Since you have been in the remodeling business for 25 years, look to your previous clients first. There has got to be someone in your black book who can help you with those first couple sales.

I have advertised with Google and Yahoo and spent plenty of time building a keyword search with 10,000 keywords and spent about $1000 only to get a few estimates and 1 actual sale. It was a big waste of money. Your cost per click ads are running against people who are spending big bucks to be #1 all day every day. It is just as effective to get organic search results for free. You can get those results by entering your name into those merchant sites like Jerry Hicks listed above. I also spend $10 a month with Icontact.com that will publish my newsletters I send out to a community profile.

I have a cold call list of around 200 that I call every 6 months, and only get 1 or 2 new potentials with that.

You become a needle in a haystack with Craigslist, but it does work for some.

No one except the old school crowd uses the yellow pages. I had a Verizon yellow pages guy tell me I would get a 10 to 1 return on my investment.....B.S.!

The vehicle wraps do work. It is my #1 advertising priority next month. I have a client that I do routing for that does digital printing. I might even get a deal on the stuff. I think regular pricing is $12 per sq. foot.

Be very frugal with your advertising dollars because you can overspend so quickly. I have paid 60 cents for a new customer, and I have paid $200 for a new customer. Obviously it was much better to get lots of those 60 cent customers.

Business networking is huge. Ideally you don't have to pay for that either. LeTip, or other business networking groups can suck your cash very quickly. You are filling an Niche, and not likely going to sell a lot through those contacts. Attending trade shows, stopping in to local sign shops and getting "in" with this new community will be key to your success.

You must portrait your self in a new light. You are a sign guy now, not a remodel guy. With every new networking encounter you must break out your "A" game.

Make samples when you have time and show them off to who ever you can. Believe me, they will impress people no matter what kind of project it is. This is why CNC's rule!

[signtist]

The EXPERTS say to spend between 1 and 3% of your annual budget (income)on advertising.

[joe]

Everyone should thank Justin for his sage advice.

Like he says you need to define yourself. Make samples of the work. The kind you want to do and show it off.

My business would close within a few months if I didn't showroom examples. When a customer visits, they get the opportunity to see dozens the best samples I know make.

If you don't have a showroom, that's ok too. Try to dentify your clients and go see them with your work. Make a sample with their name on it. Give sample some samples away and leave business card everywhere. The most important thing is get to your client as directly as possible.

[jshoes51]

Lots of good advice from everyone, and I'll consider every word of it. I'm definitely doing the vehicle wrap, but I'm going to limit yellow pages to a one or two line entry for carved signs with my website included.

I talked with the vehicle wrap guy Saturday, and I just have to let him know what to say in the wrap. I'm debating whether to focus the wrap solely on carved/3d signs or to also include cnc machining, completed Tolman skiffs and skiff kits, and wooden carriage house overhead doors. Realistically even in a good economy I could see it taking a couple years to break in to the sign business. In the meantime just one boat building job would keep me busy for several months, and a good door order for a couple weeks. They're a good way to keep cash flowing, yet still allow me to make signs as the orders come in. On the other hand, I don't want to dilute the carved sign message on the side of my van with a bunch of unrelated services. I'd be interested in other opinions about this.

I've already started to network the sign and cnc business at every opportunity. I've had samples hanging since last November in the showrooms of my favorite lumberyard, door and window supplier, and two craft stores we've done remodeling for. I also have a list of 25-30 high end builders who I've built carriage house doors for over the last ten years. I'm going to do a direct mailing to them. I'm going to make a 4'x6' two sided sign for the local community library for the cost of materials only. I aim to get a little free publicity in the local paper after it's been installed.

Jim

[joewino]

Some advice for your vehicle wrap:

Remember, more is less. Most folks only have 3 to 5 seconds to read your message.

Wraps are great advertising tools if they are done properly. Many I've seen are a waste of time and money because you can't read them. Make sure that whatever you consider the priority message is clearly readable and has the greatest contrast with the background. Keep everything simple.

[wberminio]

"KISS"

Keep It Simple Stupid


Erminio

[woodworx]

I made some small wood business card holders with a lumber company's logo on them. I made three, and stacked them full of my cards. I told them when my cards run out the card holders are theirs to keep. They took me 20 minutes to route, and 30 minutes to assemble and finish. Within a month I hooked a $3K job.

[joe]

Jim,

It's an interesting read from Dan Sawatski "Lessons and results from our first trade show" on http://www.letterville.com/ubb

I've often thought about making a neat trade show display for the Farm and Ranch business. Here in Oklahoma the fairground has all sorts of animal competitions each weekend. I've dreamed up several Marlboro themes. Great western photo's, ropes, an old saddle, perhaps a wagon wheel, or something like that. You get the idea! Then I'd have a few rustic, carved signs to show what we do. I'd have some handouts with a half dozen sign shapes. The prices would be on some of the small ones. I have one of those big belt buckes they wear. I could dude up.

I know the phone would ring off the hook.
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I'm thinking, hold on.
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Nope I'm not gonna do it. I'm covered up with work now and it would turn into a nightmare.

[zeykr]

Joe, The Rodeo belt buckle would be bigger than you!

[joe]

Yow Ken,

That and a big western hat and I'd be an irresistable chick magnet.

Still, it bears considering a trade show that's targeted to a specific market. Broadcast advertising is hard to justify for a small shop like mine.

Up to now I've haven't even lettered up my truck. I did however take out a half page ad in the yellowbook a few years ago. It paid for itself, $1,200 a month. But it wasn't worth the effort. Most of the calls didn't end up as sales.
I'm not too fond of yellowbook and glad to see the computer taking it's place.

success for me is this. A good strong cup of coffee in the morning, a nice quiet day with plenty of creative work, and a good sale to wind up on.

If I woke up in heaven, it would be just like my shop is now. With the floors needing to be swept, tools which need to be put up, and a nice call from a customer ever now and again. It doesn't get much better than that.

[poconopete]

I "rent" window space from shops in other towns and put up a nice sign. Bartering may be a better term as usually I manage to do something for them and keep my $ in my pocket. It works out well for me.

[jhicks]

Lots of good ideas here. One more I haven't seen is printed literature. You can do some pretty nice work on any of your graphic software but photos of the real thing are best.
The vistaprint on line design and order concept is easy, quick, and cheap so once you have a portfolio, simple 3 fold fliers or even mailing post cards are a very cost effective tool. Often better than business cards in terms of visuals and you can target your marketing efforts directly to your old and new customers/prospects.

[powerlsc]

I am trying to find out more about Mr. Crumleys design workshop mentioned in Jim Shulas post. Can anyone help?

New bot buddy here. Still tying to get my spoilboard attached.

[joe]

Lynn,

Thanks for your interest in the Craftsmen Workshop. I'll get a few pictures together this evening and do a post.

It was fun.

[joe]

Crastsmen Workshop


5751


5752


5753

It was a blast.

It all ended to soon


5754


5755


5756

Everyone left with samples the above "A" as well as a 3D Coat of Arms with their name carved on the bottom panel.

[myxpykalix]

When I see Joe, I think "Benjamin Button" lol.
He looks like the grandpa we would all like to have...looks like a neat learning experience.

[jshoes51]

Lynn,

this is the tutorial I was referring to:

http://beckwithdecor.com/forum/index.php

You may have to register to see the tutorial. Joe is giving lessons and grading homework on various design subjects.

[powerlsc]

Joe,
Thanks for the picture post. It looks like a great group and I'm sure everyone came away with lots of new ideas. When will you do another one?

Jim,
I'm waiting to be OKed by site admin then I'll view the tutorial. Didn't even know CNC bucket existed. Thanks

[jhicks]

Hi Lynn, Looks like you finally integrated a bot into your sign biz.
Good to see you are still active and hope you are enjoying Texas. Cant wait to see some of your photos.