3D textured HDU substrates "Ready to Go!"

[tuck]

Hey guys, I thought some of you may find this stuff interesting. Check out the faux wood panels these folks sell. Click on any design pattern and then scroll down and you can click again to see a large high resolution photo of the product:

http://www.textureplus.com/faux_panels/wood_wall_panels.aspx

Everyones talking about how to rout realistic looking wood grain. I don't see how you can get more realistic than their "Barn board", lol!

Also of note are these folks:

http://www.fauxpanels.com/faux-stone-panels/stone-styles.php?source=google&cmpgn=panel-stone&adgrp=faux-stone

Scroll all the way down and look at their Riverstone and Slate panels. Very nice!

So, how could a sign maker use this stuff? I'm sure someone has used it to dress out a sign or two before, but what if you used it as a substrate? I sent for samples and it's HDU, maybe 10lb, not very thick but very realistic looking. You could laminate it to MDO and do pocket letters for one thing and perhaps frame it out for a complete and unusual (even beautiful!), looking sign. It's applications are somewhat limited mainly because it only comes in 2' x 4' panels and anything larger would require some creative seaming techniques, and anything other than a square or rectangle shape would present some framing problems (if you need a boarder), depending on how much scrap HDU you have laying around.

Just for the heck of it, I've done a quickie design using the Barn board pattern:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/RusticSigns.jpg

Like I said, it was a quickie, but see what I'm getting at? These would be pocket letters and in this case a distressed stained/painted 2x4 lumber frame around it.

Ok, I just think the stuff has uses in some applications. I'm gonna order some panels and make sample signs. I'll post pics when I get 'er done!

[billp]

Mark,
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/2/29693.html#POST66273

[tuck]

Thanks Bill. I had not seen that thread. (How do some of y'all keep up with all this stuff?) At any rate, I'm referring to sign making here, not mantles or walls. I may not be the first to think about using this stuff for sign making, but I may be the first to post about it? Give me some credit for trying!

3D cutting can be a time consuming endeavor. For the price and for certain applications, this stuff is hard to beat. Me thinks.

[jhicks]

Mark, we have used the barnboard and posted photos on our "west end" signs and agree its a viable alternative for the right applications. One cautionary note from our experience is be careful on the size of your sign when assuming their panels are a true 2' x 4' because they really are nominally 2'x 4 and out of square. We know this because we designed a sign to accommodate the 2' width and found they are close but not true square edges. so we had to trim square and didn't get the intended 2' sign height. We had all parts cut awaiting the barnboard and ended up having to re-fabricate the trim around the barn board and the back board because of the gap that would remain due to the post trimming and squaring up material for the clean joints between sheets and final sizes of the panels.
Otherwise we liked it and would use it again for the right application.

[tuck]

Haha, Jerry, did you learn a lesson? "Never count your chickens before.....", ...you know the rest of the saying.

There are too many neat looks for it to be discounted in sign making. I particularly like the looks of the faux slate and riverstone panels and for a little over $60.00 + shipping, ya can't beat it if the application calls for it.

In the end, it's just another way to make money. You know. Cash. Greenbacks. Jingle. Moola.

[joe]

I've been watching this products too.

It seems to me it could be incorporated into a larger panel. Finding a way to finish the shaped edges poses a problem.

Gary Beckwith ordered some to play with. It turned out the surface is a print which is made very realistic with the textured HDU surface. Back then, a 2'X4' panel was selling for about $60.

I'd buy some for to play with except I too cheap and stingey.

It's not my fault, I was born this way.

Joe

[tuck]

Since you were born that way, Joe, it indeed is not not your fault! lol!

I received some more samples in the mail today and I tell ya, even at arms length it looks absolutely convincing. I think the only way to finish the edges is to put a painted frame/boarder around the panel, cut to fit closely. And like I said, it's fairly thin stuff so it would need to be glued to another substrate like MDO, Polymetal, whatever is laying around. The real problem as I see it is making a, say, 4x8 oval with it, for instance. Just another problem for brilliant minds to solve!

I'm gonna order some various panels soon and make samples. And Jerry, I hear ya. I'll wait until they get here before I do another thing!

[jhicks]

Mark, Agree on the painted frame to edge it. You should also know the grain pattern is the same on each panel but when joined end to end, the grain will not match up as its a molded pattern from actual barnboard and you cant reverse the ends because the planks are different widths. So we carefully squared them, and cut the ends to do as best we could and it turned out good but unless you plan to fill between the sheets and brush out the filler in the grooves then paint it, you should expect visible joinery seams.
The do have the lap joint bricks to help with this but not the barnboard.
We glued it to a primed medex substrate with construction adhesives, then added a rabeted edge frame with silicone seal in the rabet to cover and seal the edges.

I think if you miter along the edges on the table saw the edges clean and square, lay up 2 panels high overlapping the mitered edges, x 1 wide, secure to a substrate and cut the oval on the bot, you'll be happy. Maybe a slight touch up in the seam but nothing too difficult there.

Not sure what Gary and Joe have that is a "print" but ours were definately not printed. They are true texture with painted finish. Joe,they will even send you free sample kits IF you are nice to them. You won't even have to pay for postage! Its like an early Christmas present.

[tuck]

You know what, Jerry? If'n them folks was smart, they'd make and market full 4' x 8' panels with an authentic looking wood grain, perhaps painted and unpainted, just for sign makers. They'd make a fortune just off of us bot heads!

Think about it. If you needed to make a 4x8' oval, for instance, you'd have to buy another sheet of foam for your pocket letters anyway, so there should be no problem cutting a custom border out of the same sheet your letters came out of.

Should I call them? Better yet, e-mail them a link to this thread? Or maybe me and you should go in partners and start our own thing!

[billp]

Mark,
THIS is the guy you'd want to contact;
Brian Kampe - info@textureplus.com (mailto:info@textureplus.com)
He's been great about keeping everyone up to date on their latest products.

[tuck]

Thanks Bill, and contact him I will. He needs to know that he's sitting on a gold mine if he can upsize to 4x8 panels with a great looking 3D wood grain pattern, don't you think? Heck, if I had a lot of money, I wouldn't even contact him. I'd just start my own business making exactly what we're talking about!

Anybody got any money?

[brucehiggins]

Mark,
I have $50 I made off selling the woodgrain3D utility. ;-)
It is a good idea. I have thought of it when I look at textured hardi-plank siding.
Bruce

[tuck]

Bruce, I don't know what an injection molding machine set-up for HDU cost, or exactly how they paint that stuff to make it look so real, but I sold a sign last week for $50 so I'm thinking if me and you pooled our resources we could be on our way!

[joe]

Jerry,

Gary Beckwith and I were disecting this material not long ago, trying to figure out how they got such a nice even look. The only thing we could come up with was some kind of printing process. Since the panels are so consistant I have to assure it's a transfer process.

What do you think? Could be majic!

[tuck]

I think it's magic, Joe. The samples I got the other day were of a stacked stone and red brick variety, and while I can't see much use for those patterns in particular as a substrate for sign making (but who knows?), the detail, realism and color quality are amazing. Even the mortar between the red brick looks and feels just like it should in the "real world". I don't know how they paint it, but I know WE couldn't do it without spending a month of Sundays on it. No way, Jose!

Now I'm just speculating, but if they could offer a 4x8 authentic wood grain pattern unpainted at about $300 (some jobs may call for a solid base color that you can spray yourself), and then offer the same pattern pre-painted in light gray, dark gray, browns and tans or whatever for say, $350 - $375,...I really believe that stuff would be flying off the shelves faster than they could manufacture it, mostly all to CNC sign makers. And if the pattern on every panel looked exactly the same, who cares as long as it looked convincing and realistic???

I wish I had a bunch of money. You got any money, Joe?

[tuck]

Update: I spoke with Paul Kampe today. He's Brian's father and the owner of TexturePlus. He's a very nice gentleman and while he understood exactly what I was talking about and was sympathetic to the need of such a product, he went on to say that manufacturing 4x8 panels would require very expensive retooling at their plant and that they have no current method of shipping panels that big at this time. In other words, "It ain't gonna happen anytime soon."

He did go on to point out to me that their new "Interlock" Barnwood http://www.textureplus.com/faux_panels/wood_wall_panels.aspx
goes together seamlessly. 4 panels would just about make up a 4x8 minus the corners, but surely enough to get a 4x8 seamless oval out of for instance. It's VERY rustic looking stuff, suitable for only that application as a sign substrate, but it could work for particular jobs. He also said that they can offer all of their products unpainted, but I don't know and didn't ask about price.

The quest for larger prefabbed panels with what Joe Crumley so aptly calls a "delicate and realistic pattern and grain" goes on.

[jhicks]

Mark, I have spoken to Brian about this as well with same reply. Someday i think I'll try a sample mold and squirt "great stuff" into it. I know there are pourable foams and sooner or later someone will get on this train to make it happen.
Anyone out there familiar with a foam or material that might make this viable?

[Brady Watson]

Jerry,
If you are looking to 'production molding' there will be a substantial investment. Ridgid molds (AL) coated with Teflon are typically needed due to polyurethane's tenacious nature to stick to everything. You can do very low numbers with RTV rubber, but you'd best use the correct mold release and know what you are doing. It isn't uncommon for foam to stick to a mold - trashing both the mold & the piece. You can do smaller parts in HDPE, but it needs a backer to keep it from distorting & plenty of hours of sanding out tooling marks to make it suitable as a master. SmoothOn has foams suitable for this type of project. Yes this can be done, but in reality, the amount of time & effort needed to just get one good cast panel is not worth it unless you have a big SQ FT job that affords it or an existing marketing scheme in place. Somewhere in the mix of things there is a cut off point as to whether or not machining makes more sense than casting.

-B

[tuck]

I don't know much about it other than routing it Jerry, but I do know that HDU is a petroleum based product. It's evidently mixed in liquid form into a big vat, allowed to set up and then sliced into sheets of various thicknesses (and density, as the case may be). Paul Kempe says that their product is not HDU but if it walks like a duck,...

Somebody will eventually get on this train and make a mint, I have no doubt about it. Meanwhile, as I promised him, I'm gonna send Paul a link to this thread.

You got any money, Jerry? I don't think "Great Stuff" is gonna cut it, lol! ;-)

[tuck]

Brady, thanks for your input. I'm not the smartest guy around, but I DO think the market exist and is just waiting to be filled with the right product at the right price. Part of the problem is that these guys like Paul and Brian, while sympathetic and understanding, aren't CNC SIGN guys so they really can't appreciate the need for such a product. They have their eyes on another ball.

In my dreams, I just ordered (or picked up from my local sign supply warehouse), a beautiful 4x8 panel of cast HDU that looks for all the world like sandblasted redwood or cedar. In my dreams I can't wait to get up early in the morning and start machining the sheet for pocket letters and graphics, excited all the while about how great it's gonna look when I'm done and appreciative of how much machine time I saved by being able to purchase the molded wood grain panel.

Somebody wake me up.

[brucehiggins]

Mark,
Most of my dreams lately seem to be shopbot or sign related too. Kind of funny when you think about what we dreamed about when we were young.
Someone will go with your idea and make some money.
Bruce

[tuck]

Another update: Paul Kampe at TexturePlus (the owner), was nice enough to send me free of charge 4 panels of the Barnwood brown interlock. I didn't ask him to, he just did it!

http://www.textureplus.com/faux_panels/wood_wall_panels/rustic_barnwood_brown.aspx

BEAUTIFUL stuff for the right kind of rustic looking sign. I'll hold onto it for just that and post pics in here when I use it.

THANK YOU PAUL!