Making Wooden Signs

[ljgomes]

Our snowmobile club in NH is in the process of making up wooden junction signs to put up in the NH State Forest. The signs are built of 2" thick PT pine boards that range in size from 28" x 24" to 24" x 8" in size. We were planning to use a router and a simple sign template kit to router in the lettering but the results were not up to our expectations. The lettering is apx. 1.75" high and 1" - 1.5" wide, cut into the wood about 1/4". Can a benchtop shopbot handle this job? Will the software that comes with the machine work or do you need to buy another package? Is there anyone in NH with a shopbot that may want to help with this project? We have the wood signs done, just need the lettering. Thanks, Larry Gomes 508-366-1172.

[Brady Watson]

Larry,
If your sign blanks are already cut, you could easily make a simple vacuum jig to hold the signs using an ordinary shop vac.

PartWizard (included in the benchtop purchase) will work for carving the letters. 1st thing that comes to mind is V-carving the letters using a V-bit. PartWizard allows you to carve 5 selected fonts right out of the box. Another option would be to use the new Windows version of the control software. In there you can V-carve many different fonts using the Typesetter program that is built in.

Sounds like a perfect application for the Benchtop machine. I am located in South Jersey. E-mail me if you need help or if you are not in a position to cut these I have some machine time available.

-Brady
bjwat at comcast dot net

[ljgomes]

Thanks Brady for your input. I was contacted by another forum member (Bill Thorpe) who lives just a few miles away from me. He put his entire afternoon on hold and graciously cut some test letters into my sign blank to make sure everything would go as expected. I could not be happier with the results. Hard to believe I went from having a problem to finding a solution in less than 6 hours. This forum is great and the Shopbot equipment is impressive to see in action.

[Brady Watson]

Larry,
Glad it worked out for you. The forum is a big reason that I bought my machine...I'd be way behind the times if this network of users was not in place!

-Brady

[jay_p]

I have volunteered to make a rather large sign for a local park owned by a non-profit group. I am on the board of this group, and I have a Shopbot. I am not normally a signmaker however this does seem like a good chance to try something different on the machine and it will be a donated job.
I intend to use a redwood blank about 5 ft square, and the letters will need to be about 5 - 6 inches high. We are looking for a painted Forest Service type sign that we see so much of here in Idaho.
Does anyone have any sage advice about fonts or cutters or paint. I was considering a .75 inch v-bit or roundnose. I have ArtCam Pro as well as Part Wizard.
Thanks
Jay

[Mayo]

Is the entire sign going to be painted? If so, why use redwood? Treated deck lumber would last as long or longer. Be careful of some of the recycled plastic/wood fiber decking - it refuses to allow paint to stick to it.

There is also a potential for the sign to warp due to removing only portions of the surface (lettering or background). You may need some bracing on the back to help prevent this.

To avoid the time of preparing a wooden blank - (dowels or bisquits, glue up, sanding or surfacing etc., try SignFoam or Precision Board if you have a local source.

Latex paint will allow for more expansion and contraction than oil based enamels and a good brand of house paint will have a warranty of 20 years or more.

If your lettering is only a single stroke thickness of .75" wide and 5 to 6 inches high, it may appear a little thin and weak. Depending on your color scheme it could be hard to read from a distance. It would also depend on the message that is on the sign.

Certain fonts don't go with certain wording.
You might think twice about going to a doctors office that uses lettering like a circus sideshow.

Fonts with serifs are generally thought of as more formal than san-serif fonts. San-serif fonts are generally more casual in nature. Slanted fonts impart speed or urgency. Bold or extra bold fonts can make a statement from a distance (good for headlines) while light and medium fonts can inform and educate at a closer distance.

If the sign is to be readable on both sides, make sure you leave a margin of space so that your lettering isn't too close to the posts or brackets that hold up the sign.

[jay_p]

Thanks a lot for the ideas Mayo.
The sign will probably be completely painted. The typical forest sign around here will have off-white lettering, with a brown or dark green background.
How durable is SignFoam or Precision Board? I am not familiar with these products. Are they high density polyurethane foam? This site is in a rural area here in North Idaho. It will no doubt be nailed with a beer can or two, maybe a few rocks, paint balls, and possibly even shot at during its lifespan.
I hadn't thought of the warping potential that you mentioned.

This sign will probably need to be visible alongside a slow traffic gravel road at about 75 feet. Any idea as to how large the letters should be?

Thanks again

Jay

[ljgomes]

Hi Jay. Most of the signage I have seen in the Northeast forests has been built of thick wood. For our current project, we are using 3" planed PT lumber that comes through at a finished size of 2.5". Redwood is just as good I am sure, but the thickness of the lumber helps it to hold up over the years.

For your site distance, I would recommend a minimum letter height of 4". It really comes down to how big your surface is and how much text you are trying to display, but bigger text is better. We use an outdoor dark brown stain rather than paint since it will not peel or chip.

I really like Permachink Stain (www.permachink.com (http://www.permachink.com)) since it is designed for log homes and holds up extremely well. For the lettering we generally use a good quality yellow outdoor house paint. If you really want it to last forever, use a primer in the lettering first before putting on the finish coat.

This brown and yellow color scheme is traditional for signs in our area, but you may have different colors in your area. The easiest way to finish the sign is to make your sign blank and sand the front surface smooth with a vibrator sander, first with 80 grit sandpaper and finished off with 100 grit sandpaper. Clean off using a tack rag and stain the entire sign blank. Let dry and apply a second coat.

When the stain is completely dry, apply 3-M paint mask to the sign and then cut your letters through it into the wood. Usually works best to use a small bit to cut the lettering so it keeps the paint mask from fraying around the edges of the lettering. Then paint the inside of your lettering and remove the paint mask.

[ecnerwal]

So long as you don't need curves, I've been having very nice results from the typesetter tool in the 3.1.14 software with Times New Roman font (some other fonts have been weird - mostly fine, then a huge Z-plunge making a divot). I happen to use a 90 degree V bit - the tool will use whatever bit angle you tell it to.

Typesetter V-carves True-Type fonts from your computer; it only does a single line, so multi-line signs are built up by calling each line in a master part file that lays them out - preview is your friend, here. And it is limited to straight lines, so no funky curves.

I've been doing some new house numbers for E911 renumbering in the 6-inch size. They look great, and even my old PR will cut them fine. The master part file can be scaled if the size is off a bit from what you want (or to check out the sign in miniature before cutting the real thing). Just scale all 3 axes the same, or the V carve will be out of whack.

[jay_p]

Thank you all for the help. I have worked out my text on ArtCam and done a few test cuts with a .75" round nose bit. This project will take a while to work through since it is a freebie, and I have other things to do. I'll keep you posted.

Jay

[jsfrost]

This seems as good a place as any to post.

I have done a batch of City Park signs in customer supplied 2x12 Redwood. All were 2 boards high and customer installed in existing end support structures. As a follow on project I have been asked to do a similar sign with a third board about 6 feet long, routed with a half inch deep relief, arched on top and mounted without suported on the ends. The customer suggests I glue the shorter board to the supported board below. Instinct tells me I need better support than that, perhaps 3 redwood 2x4s or screwed to all 3 boards on the backside which will not be visable.

How would you experienced craftsmen handle this?

[danhamm]

If the sign were to be hung, I would drill and use threaded rebar. Otherwise I would drill and
use 5/8 dowling glued, penetrating at least 1/2
way into each board..

[jay]

Jim, I use dowels set back approx. 2/3 of the thickness. In the Gildwood Park sign about 60 x 36" there is just under 80 dowels. It has survived for the last couple of years with no problems, opps, one of the locations was hit by a car last winter. The brick work had to be redone but the sign survived unscaved.
6166


Same method employed with this sign as well.

6167

[kerrazy]

Dowels will definaltey work, But I prefer to Edge Joint my boards and apply Gorilla glue to them. They will not fail, guarenteed. Try and always use vetical grain cedar, this will reduce any warping or cupping that may occur. If you do not have this option, Then I would biscuit joint them. I find dowels when glued in place do not allow for wood movment as they are both wood and glued in on opposing grain. Eventually something has to give and it is usually the softer of the woods. But Jay has been doing this longer than me, so if he feels dowels will not fail than heed his advice.
Dale

[jsfrost]

Thank you all.

I would be cutting and glueing this weekend, except we have begun a discussion on how many stiches in the baseball seams. few, big, and legable, or true to scale. I can see from Jay's work, I need to start thinking in curves. Nice work.