Question Copyright of short phrases

[nailzscott]

Someone asked me to make some small signs that are simply phrases and/or statements. I have done some research through information from the US copyright office which stated that "Names, titles, and short phrases or expressions are not subject to copyright protection." On the other hand I know of an individual in our area that did some cnc plasma work making some 'Get 'er Done' sign for inserts into towing receivers, and I understand it cost him some money to settle the issue with the guy that made that statement famous - I think Larry the Cable Guy. So, some of you folks have been making signs for years. How cautious do you have to be making signs of slogans and phrases; or is it not an issue? I am not talking about design, just the words and phrases. Thanks

[Brady Watson]

Names, titles and short phrases can be enforced if they are trademarked. This is why you cannot just sell signs that say Pepsi, Meryl Streep or ShopBot on them. They are not copyrighted, but they are trademarked names.

-B

[bernott]

Vary cautious, "That was easy" opps I broke a trademark law, seriously when in doubt ask a copyright lawyer.

[nailzscott]

Thanks for the comments. Some resources are: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html & http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm. I was not looking at anything famous like the examples from Brady. A couple of my daughters-in-law saw a variation of something like the attached picture - and asked me if I could make them. This is nothing fancy (probably painted) but I cannot see why this would be a problem. "Prayer - When Life Gets Too Hard To Stand...Kneel"
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[myxpykalix]

I had never heard that saying before...it's a pretty good one though. I don't know how in the world you would ever track down the originator to ask permission for your two signs, just go ahead and make them...

[jamesgilliam]

Scott, I have been doing plaques for several years and have not had problems with copyright or trademark. Most of these have been from the Bible,


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and while we know who the author is, I don't think He will object to putting His Word in front of people.

Other sayings I have done related to universities have been through or for various clubs and groups that are connected to them.

Personally I think you run into the legal problems when you take a logo or saying that is known and copy it exactly and offer it for sale, therefore cutting into their profit. Making it for yourself, or your daughters-in-law should not be a problem.

[nailzscott]

Thanks for the input. Even though I did not think I would have any problem with this - it's always possible that others (from the churches where my daughters-in-law attend) may want to buy a similar sign. I guess if I ever have any question about a phrase, I'll just do some trademark and copyright searches, apply some good common sense, then go for it. Thanks again.

[bernott]

A easy out would be to express to your "customers" that I am charging for time and material & NOT for the artwork.

God wants you to spread his word. corporations want you to fill there pockets....that's my moto

[waynelocke]

You could require them to sign a release stating that they either own the copyright or that it is not copyrighted. I'm not a lawyer but this really shouldn't be on your shoulders if your client is commissioning the work. If you bring in a stolen car it's not the mechanic's responsibility.

[gerald_martin]

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Amen Bernie and James! God's word may be copied as much as we want - we only get in trouble if we start altering it's content.

Spread the WORD!

Gerald

[nailzscott]

I did found out that someone is marketing a sign with the Prayer slogan above; but that still does not tell me much if it is trademarked or copyrighted. I guess I'll just make these for my daughters-in-law, and if someone they know wants one, I'll figure it out at the time.

[bleeth]

Adapting common usage phrases-profitable
Using someone elses trademarked slogan for profit-Priceless

Go ahead Scott-I don't think any religous organization would even think about being identified with suing you for making those signs for your relatives.

[myxpykalix]

I don't think anyone can copyright or trademark GOD'S word. Maybe they can their own design. So I say as far as your sign..."Git er done!" or "you're Fired!"

[curtiss]

One of my favorite phrases is:

"If you can't turn, you ain't much better than a cannonball..."

It works well for teaching skiing or showing the advantages of a shopbot,

I believe it was stated by Orville Wright in the early days of aviation.

[jamesgilliam]

Scott and everyone, My wife Jo-Anne had been dealing with copyright and trademarks for the company she worked for. She did a little research on the subject on the web and the following is her conclusions:

"I have worked with copyright laws, and although a lot of people would like to scare you into using their services, a little common sense will work better.
The Bible was not copyrighted. If it were, the time limit ended about 1900 years ago.
Now, for a phrase that you want to carve, search the Web. If you look on the web you will find a ton of sources for "Git 'Er Done!" It's in the dictionary, attributed to various jargons. It's just a phrase, not a literary work, and not attributable to one source - it's a common phrase. Now, if it was attached to a graphic that was originally designed by Larry the Cable Guy or whoever, or the font is an exact duplication of an item that has been marketed elsewhere - not good. The words alone are not copyrightable by anyone.
You can't copyright "Good morning."
There is also a time limitation on copyrights - that's why you can find full texts of old hymns and books on the web. I can't remember how many years, but you probably don't care. Copyrights are also tied to countries.
Any time that a set of words is fixed - that is, written down and documented - that set of words is immediately considered the intellectual property of the author. You don't have to register it. However, it has to be a grouping of words unusual enough, like a poem or a song, that an earlier author has not already used it.
Another consideration that is important to the decision is what you are going to do with the item. No one can sue you for their loss if you give it away. They have lost no money. It is the process of selling "Coca Cola" that puts you in jeopardy."

Notice I gave her credit for the above lest I infringe on her material. LOL Scott I would cut them and not worry about it at all.

[phil_o]

James,
maybe the research your wife has done can answer this question. If I take a picture of a NASCAR driver or his car or any other celebrity and use it to produce a carving for sale am I infringing on copyright law?

[jamesgilliam]

Phil, You make a valid point with this question. But let me ask you this, since it is you taking the picture do you own it? Of course you do. Since the picture is your property you have the right to do with it as you see fit. If I took a picture of the Washingtom Monument, or anything else, I would not hesitate to duplicate it. I doubt that newspapers or magazines get permission to use photos in their printed media, so I would not see a problem in the media that you would choose. The only place where you could run into a problem would be to put the NASCAR logo on the item, making it to seem like something they were marketing through you.

[myxpykalix]

At the peril of creating another long copyright thread, i'll just say usually celebrity's images are trademarked and where you run into problems is when you make a profit at selling their likenesses. If you wanted to make some plaques for friends or relatives it wouldn't be a big deal but if you want to sell a plaque with a nascar drivers image you probably would have to license it.

[gene]

If celebrity images are trademarked then how does the paparitizy sell these photos for tons of money to tabloids?

[myxpykalix]

I think the deal is you couldn't use Britney Spears image to sell something but if they are out on the street that is considered public domain and you could sell that picture but not use it in conjunction with some type of advertisement. Who knows....who really cares? I think her image is a bit tarnished anyway.

[magic]

News is considered different category. Weird but true.