Reverse Channel Letters

[wcsg]

Here is my latest LED channel letter project that I just recently completed.

Two things unique about this project than my norm.

1) it's illuminated by LED's

2) The faces are done by products by Sculpt Nouveau, a local metal paint and patina maker.

This job was not made to meet my expectations as constraints of time were really pushed. There were aspects I wish I would have had time to do and original design by another sign compnay, such as make the letter faces to meet returns without separation or gap, texture the returns as well as the smaller dimensional letters. Paint the fasteners which you can see inside the clear tubing for stand-offs.

One thing I did change from specs was the paint job, which originall called out for a vertical fade across the "Solare" faces from light copper to dark using matthews paint system. I wanted to experiment using the Sculpt Nouveau system which greatly matches the interior of the restaurant and more of a raw and rustic look wanted by the owners.

I wish the building exterior paint could better go with the sign, lol.

Now to the LED's. I contacted Marko of YYZ and followed through with a promise I would use his in my next LED job I had coming, that was over a year ago today. The choice of LED's was perfect for this application, the letter stroke is much to small for neon or any other light source. Marko's very awesome to work with, I know he was very busy traveling and meeting other aspects of his work but still managed time to answer all my questions and offer suggestions, it went greatly appreciated! I sent him a .dxf file and he spaced out the LED's by letter and suggested spacing, so all I had to do was follow his provided layout pattern.

Cutting out the aluminum faces from the CNC
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare1.JPG

Sculpt Nouveau textured paint and sponge I used for creating raised and textures on my faces
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare2.JPG

Simple application and ready to spread across each face
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare3.JPG

I spread around using my finger and then Sponging time!
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare4.JPG

Drying time, it dries very fast, 15-20 minutes and ready to work more in if needed. After it dried I sanded the faces down so I had a some what flat surface with low spots for the patina's to sink into.
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare5.JPG


The little bottle is the Liver Of Sulfur patina which is a hard rock you have to mix with water.

The can is for UV protection.

I gave all letters 2-3 coats by brush, but on the last coat as the letters were wet I applied the patina by spraying it on generously with a water mister, letting it dry with the paint for 8 minutes. I then washed the patina away lightly, lightly using a hose. With this patina I achieved a brown or bronze appearance with the copper. The Patina is a hard rock that need to be dissolved in water, but you have to use this quick because the water will dissolve it and the effect will not exist. This patina has to be used fast.

The UV laquor I used later after final coats. I used very small multiple light coats. I used too much at first and paint peeled up on my dimensional letters, lucky those and not the channel letters.

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare6.JPG

The final finish on the faces. This is where I wish I had the time to texture the returns as well, but in a way, maybe not.

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare7.JPG

The Halo.

I'm not sure if I did the rear backing right for diffusing the pinpoint LED lighting using polycarb with a simulated etched glass or frosted film. Maybe next time I'll try to put the LED's on the backing facing in and use the reflection of the flat white pan of the letters. I got a wierd shard glass appearance, but after looking at the night wall appearance I think it worked out good. With the type style it sork of gave a "fire appearance" with the orange so I think it was fitting.
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare8.JPG

LED layout.
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare9.JPG

The day shot of both signs
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare10.JPG

A close shot
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solare11.JPG

Though I did not get a chance to do everything for this job I would have liked to, I still had fun with this project. This is one of those "Just get it up , whatever you have to do" type rush projects with the press and dinner comprised of local large business owners and the Mayor coming for a dinner

I really like the result of the orange color LED's and the textured simulated aged copper finish.

I took a bunch and out of those this one is the most accurate of the bunch. I'm using the under canopy light to help me in judging the true brightness of the sign and this one seems to portray it well.

I have to say in all honesty these 1/2 watt module LED's worked quite well.

http://thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/Solare/solarefin.JPG

[myxpykalix]

That is very cool Erik. I'm surprised that the LED's are that bright. Have you lit anything with Cold Cathode lighting? I don't think it would be as bright.

[wcsg]

Thank you jack

CCFL lamps are my #1 choice for illumination in channel lettering and regularly use nothing but Tri & RE Phosphor glass (My neon guy actually does is own phosphor coating), staying away from the single phosphate junk like 6500 SW.

This particular project due to the stroke of the letter (around 1/2") I had to use LED's it better fit this application (Not sold on LED's as a regular use light source, yet).

This particular brand of LED is not your average off the shelf like GE or Sloan, this is the only LED manufacturer I would ever use and more of a architecture grade. The Led is Nichia and the modules contain aluminum heat sinks for better heat dissipation. I took about 75 night shots with different settings, as you can see I kept the background canopy light to verify what the accuracy of the shot, making sure there was no over exposure to make the halo lighting appear brighter than reality from an over exposed shot.

The color is custom as well, my LED guy binned it. It's actually four LED chips, 2 reds, 2 greens to make the tangerine color.

[butch]

Erik
That is great. Been working some with LED's and trying to incorporate them into lighting. Realy liked what you did with these.
Thanks for posting
Butch

[john_l]

Erik,

Job very well done.

I am a mostly neon-only guy from way back also. Just as you used LED's because of your clearance space limitation, I just used some sloan units cause they were specified in a recent reverese letter job I also did. I was impressed with the light output of the sloans but I still worry about longevity, especially with the field service challenges of reverse halo letters. There are many neon signs we did 25 years ago still lit up.

I see you notched your returns and I wanted to ask... how did you attach the returns to the faces? and what thickness are the faces and returns? My recent ones were a little larger letters and therefore I just used all .060" and just spot welded the returns to the faces.

The bot shined on my job too by the way. Tolerances are very important on a job like this.

John

[wcsg]

John,

I've only been in the bus for a short 15 yrs, and I still have neon signs up that have yet to be serviced.

My trust of LED's for longevity is in question and why I don't use them on a regular basis along with the "Save Power & Energy Efficient" motto which usually is not the case other than using red LED's. White and colored LED's have a tendency to change colors six times within a year, and get inconsistent lighting between modules over short times. Speaking of Sloan, they had to pay back a major sign manufacturer (Hilton Hotel) because the individual modules kept going out or turning colors, ouch!

The faces are alum, .080, the rears are gavinized plated sheet metal. My fab guy was not too happy with me on these letters
I used 3M VHB mixed with silicone for the bonding of the letters faces with the pans.

Have to love the shopbot with good tight tolerances. These letters are no problem, I do Braille signs too and it does a good job especially when they should be finished on a engraver and not on a big 4x8 table.

[jhicks]

Very Nice!

[fordnut]

excellent work erik, got a question for ya, doe you know what to use or how to make a simulated neon sign,its as bright as neon but its not neon tube

[wcsg]

There are different LED manufacturer's who make LED tubes, but not small enough you would use as a window sign such as "Tattoo Shop", these would be used for accent lighting or border tubing. It's basically LED modules in a half circle tube like this link

http://www.leotek.com/led_border_tube1.html

But it makes no sense, your looking at a higher cost.

LED's are pinpoint lighting and you need a lot of them to light an area. CCFL formally known as Neon is linear and has a much more higher light dispersion and less expensive, not to mention lasts longer

What is your application Joe? You can make window signs but I've never seen them in a tube but more or less inserted through a backing exposing the LED Diode