Sign Cutting - Foam

[garbob]

PRICES for cutting SignFoam or PrecisionBoard!

I am finally ready to do some serious sign carving using the above materials and my new ShopBot PRT96.

The only price that I have is about 5 years old for carving 1" SignFoam on a CNC overhead router. The price was $39 US per square foot or (portion thereof) included vcarving, scalloping the edge and cutting out the sign. I have talked to several people that have purchased this type of sign with guilded letters. The prices they paid are very inconsistent. $125, $170 and $85 per square foot - finished and hung (Cdn $).

I am having a very hard time finding anyone that is doing this as a business that is willing to talk about prices charged. I'm not sure that this is the right venue for this discussion.

If you are willing to discuss the prices that you charge sign shops, or end users, I would be very appreciative. I am only interested in cutting prices. I have no interest in any form of finishing. Please e-mail me with info or e-mail me with your phone number and a convenient time for me to call you and I will (in North America).

[Tom Bond]

I've worked in the sign industry for 4 years. The main issue with cutting foam is to be careful with your speeds, or it melts. They make a foam sheet with PVC laminate faces for extra durability...

[arthur_ross]

Bob-

One of my customers uses the pink foam for interior signage, but it makes a godawful mess when it's being routed, and it will dent and scratch every time you touch it. I've heard (not seen) that unless you seal it tight, water can get into it, freeze, and break off chunks. The High density urethane is the easiest, longest lasting material for this, but it's kind of pricey (150$ for a 4x8 sheet). The two major brands are Sign Foam and Precision Board, they both have web sites.

Cheers!
Arthur Ross
Deltamation Inc.
www.signsontap.com

[arthur_ross]

Bob-

The insulation foam (in the blue or pink variety) actually seems to "chip" or ball up and is not well drawn up into the vacuum, and also seems to take on a huge static charge and sticks to everything in sight. The high density urethane is basically chewed to dust by the router, is mostly pulled up into the vacuum, and does not seem to take on a charge. I also think because it's a heavier material, it tends to fall onto the table instead of drifting around in the air.

My 2 cents.

Arthur

[llarson@softdisk.com]

When cutting the "blue" extruded polystyrene and HDU (high density urethane) boards I use an 1/8" bit. It produces less "dust". What size are you using?

[ronster727@aol.com]

Shoot,man...
use the s/bot to lay out the markings on the foam
with the old felt pen trick.Let the guy cut the foam with a jig saw over at his place and he'll have all the mess.probably faster anyway.

[birdsofplay]

I've had this SB for a year and half or so now.
I've made all sorts of stuff and use it mostly for
drilling ops for production of our products.

I've also made some engravings and signs for myself BUT NOW !!!
I have a neighbor who wants a large sign cut for a large roadside outdoor display.
Individual letters will not be much larger than
40" or so. Total width is about 20' ( he says )

No problem cutting BUT ...

We are having a DISCUSSION over materials and
durability.

I wanted to do it in FOAM.
He wants to laminate plywood over the foam
BUT we both have reservations about FOAM in the 1st place.

I have made a foam sign fo my place and it's painted in latex paint and has held up for
some months now but we havent had a BAD winter yet
nor have we had any HAIL this season.
Location is north Indiana / south Michigan.

How does it weather ? , hold up ? long run.

Should I/we go the the expense and trouble of
getting some of this "denser" urathane sign foam
that I cant remember where to get it at ?

Does anyone have any long term experience with
the blue or pink extruded foams, easily obtainable
from your local lumberyard.

Hey, I only got involved because he cant get a
"regular" sign guy to come out and quote the job.

We have cut some test letters from that "paper
laminated Sign Board" plywood and glued that to
a similar cutting of 1.5" foam with NO-SOLV
outdoor/commercial carpet glue.

Does it sound like I dont know sign making ?
It sould !!!

[birdsofplay]

Thaks Art,

Um ??? I know the Pink is messy , so is the Blue
and even though I HAVE NOT weighed it for verification, it seems as though the blue is a
smidge/tad/skosh denser. But I could be wrong.

Now I gotta ask...
why isnt the heavier Urethane foam messy as well ? It's closed cell extruded et al ...
It's just denser. Does that mean that it cuts
more like wood ... ie chips instead of dust ?

Actually I dont make much distinction re messy as I think cutting wood is messy also :-)

[birdsofplay]

OK !!!

Sounds like good advise.

Thanks guys

[birdsofplay]

Larry,

I have a single flute 1/4" bit that is Looong !
Everything else I have is generally short plus
I got some resharpened HSS bits from that guy in Tulsa. They cut my 2" thick job OK ! 3/8 dia

We've decided to cut the wood and foam seperately and glue them up afterwards. So depth has become a
non issue.

Oh, an Larry, I expect that Polyprop or PolyEth are gonna be real costly materials. We already choked
on the $150 for the urethane board.

I did like the sand blasted work on that material however. There are some neato examples out there
on that site.

[birdsofplay]

Well the sign ply board is all cut and the foam we ended up using was the type used "under" concrete !
You heard it right ! This stuff is 2" thick and
a tad denser than the blue construction foam board.

We used liquid nails to glue the ply to the boards and smoothed off the edges with a belt sander
or the inside curves with an oscillating spindal sander.

I guess only time will tell on durability. The customer is going to take what I've done and paint up all the letters and "screw em up" himself.

I may put up a webpic when he gets it done and up.
Dont hold your breath on this one cuz it's hotter than blazes lately and I wouldnt want to be out
putting up a sign let alone in MY shop !

In response to the SB as a marker then using a jig or band saw for actual cutting ...
Uh ? What ? OK, ok ... I musta missed the joke.

Anyway, I can cut foam and really good rate and still have lots smoother edges than a saw would leave.
B'sides you'd hafta have a "BIG" band saw to clear
some of the letters I've been cutting out ! ! !

[joa]

Try EPP (expanded poly propylene)- its bombproof. They use it in a lot of combat RC gliders.

The surface will end up coarser than polystyrene but you'll have a better product (you may have to apply a filler.)

Seems like if I were to sell this I would give both options to the customer and let them decide and pay the difference.

Joa

[bruce_clark]

Bob,

Couple of thoughts. I/we have used the blue foam
for signs in our business. Here are a couple of
observations. First, they must be completely
painted ALL over (sealled). Down here, freezing
is not a problem but intense UV exposure is (and
most foams decay in UV light).

Second, all our "foam" signs are out of reach.
There is one that is two years old and it looks as
good as the day it was put up, but again we have
not had any freezing weather in the last two years
and the foam was painted with a latex paint.

Now, one problem we do have is wind. All of our
signs are backed against either a building or some
solid backing (thick plywood ect). Liquid Nails
is generally what we use to hold the foam to the
wood. Works good and is a bear to take off.

If you want some pictures, I can email you what we
have done in the past. Unfortunately, all the
signs were done with jig saws (done before I got
the ShopBot), but you get the basic idea (it was
the reason I got the ShopBot in the first place).

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)

[bruce_clark]

Roster727,

Actually, that is what I was going to do
originally, but I was a) able to "nest" the parts
inside each other and was able to conserve 1
entire sheet of material by nesting. B) is is not
faster, if you have to "draw" the part on the
foam, it could just as easily be a 2 flute cutter
and be done with it!

Now, it would be cleaner to do have someone else
do it, but the letters will not be as straight or
consistent.

Lastly, because I live in a VERY humid
environment, static was not much of an issue. The
"dust" was not so bad (nothing that I could not
clean up with a vaccum and a push broom).

Just my $.02

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)

[grantbjorn@aol.com]

Hi everybody I've been a sign maker for over 20 years and have my own sign shop. If you want to make signs there are 2 easy ways to do it. 1st easy way buy a sign magazine. Signs of the Time,Sign Business and Sign Crafters are all have articles on cut-out letters. 2nd easy way go to a couple of your local sign shops and till them you need a cut out letter sign they show you more sign ideas than you can every imagine. 3rd and best idea get a job at a sign shop and learn how to do it right. PS I have one more suggestion buy a six pack of beer and go over to your favorite local sign maker after work and till him that you really like his signs. Don't worry what to say next he'll probably not stop talking until the beer is gone. Grant

[kerrazy]

Here is a sign I did in pink foam. I sealed it with a two - part epoxy from west sytem. In the back of the sign I created pockets to insert thin strips of plywood which were apoxied in place, for securing it to the check plate backer and used construction adhesive as well. It was coated with rustoleum antique gold finish a two step application and then several coats of clear laquer. It was put up in October and ... So far so good.
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