Concrete & Pine

[joe]

I've been sandblasting Yellow Pine instead of redwood. In some ways it's superior.


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We use Hartco SB mask. By putting it directly on the wood and routing it there saves lots of time. It also helps hold the grain together as the bit carves around the letters. My technique is to profile the letters and panel with a 1/8" bit with a Z of -.125 going down to -.40 Then I do the area clear with a 1/4" bit. No need for a tight stepover. .20 is enough. Remember were sandblasting this area so any extra texture is a plus.



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It's important to choose wood with vertical grain. Ron and I made a trip to Lowe's. Searched out our board. It was a 2"X8"X96" pine. We paid $5.46. There's laught each time we think of it. She's going to be a beauty. It'll take extra cleats. I'll make em decorative. Like a boat
builder would.


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For routing out the sandblast mask I use a 1/4" roundover from Woodline with a needle point.

Here's another benefit for a router. You can't sandblast the background down, to any reasonable depth, on harwoods. The mask will wear out from the pressure of the sand but with a CNC you can take it down by a half inch, then lightly sandblast. I've done it both ways and the router way is much better. I'm using a 5hp compressor for sandblasting although I have a big twin screw.

The shape on the letters above are outline letters. You'll see when it's finished up.

I'll post photo's tomorrow after blasting.



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[rb99]

Cedar signs might be more durable...

RB

[sailfl]

Joe,

What do you mean by the comment that, 'Pine is superior to Yellow Pine'? How is it superior?

Thanks

[joe]

Nils,

I think your question is “Redwood VS. Pine.

The historical Redwood couldn't be beat. It was soft, came in vertical grain, and good out in the weather. Those days are gone. It's now very expensive and because it comes from new growth timbers and isn't stable. I haven't found a good supply of tight vertical grain, which I can afford, in a long time. My last purchase for a 2”X10”X10' came in at $180.00

Even expensive redwood when blasted shallow, isn't very impressive. But with a router you can take several kind of wood and make some impressive signs. For some time now I've using Yellow Pine because it has very dramatic grain, and is readily available. Not to mention Cheap.

Why hasn't pine been used more? Because you couldn't sandblast it down to the necessary depth and it was usually wet. Also the sandblast mask would wear out before any depth would be rendered. Redwood was kiln dried, and light weight and a sandblaster would take it down fast. With a router, getting the necessary depth into pine is easy. It only takes the minimum amount of blasting to get a beautiful grain.


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[toych]

2x8x17 (2 pieces) V.G. Western Red Cedar, $425.00...........ouch!

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[joe]

Wow, that's beautiful wood.

$5.75 a board foot seems reasonable.

[khalid]

Joe..You are a real woodworker, innovative and genius person in this forum...

[garyb]

Joe its $9.38 bf
2x8x17 22.666bf x 2 45.333 / $425.00 = $9.38bf

[joe]

Thanks for the correction Gary.

The Cedar will render a much cleaner look than the pine which is more rustic, Lodge Type. Your Cedar has a more sophisticated appearance.

Pine won't work for everything but now it's a player.

Isn't good to have the choice.

[joewino]

Good looking stuff there, Mr. Crumley. Thanks for sharing.

"Genius"? Hmmmmm.

[joe]

I've blasted this with glass beads. They cut much faster than sand and don't put off any silicas.


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[joewino]

Very nice, Mr. Crumley.

[zeykr]

Are you gonna use dibond letters or ?

[joe]

Ken,

Since this is a small sign, I'm not sure applied letters would be in scale. I'll use HP Vinyl. I've designed this with little outline and a drop shade around the letters.

Small outlines and shades will look best when painted the same color as the background. Otherwise they will read as a tricky little element taking away from the lettering. And any flaw will stick out like a soar thumb.

It gives a little custom look to a plain sign.

[zeykr]

Look forward to a picture showing that.

Thanks!

[mdebruce]

Impressive

[khaos]

Joe do you find the glass to be kinder to the mask? It seems like it would be.

[joe]

Joe

I'm not sure because we only use it in a small low pressure, pressure-pot which has low CFM. I wouldn't be surprized it if wouldn't cut right throught mask with seriorus sandblasting. I believe we pay about $35. a bag. We recover it.

Glass beads are deceptive. They cut very fast.

[jhicks]

As Usual Joe, your creative talent and technique is an inspiration. I now have a vinyl plotter up and running and have been wondering just how I would incorporate it into the dimensional work. looks like I'm only a sand blast away.
What kind of prime and paint will you use on this pine? Pine definately does not do well over time with moisture so just curious what your plan is.
Thanks for the techniques and photos.

[joe]

Jerry,

Ron Mitchell primed the little sign today with Blockout White. It keeps tannans from leaching through. By using vertical grain wood, warping is held to a minimum. There will be some checking however.

The paint will be exterior acrylic latex.

If you have a 5hp compressor and a cheepie 50lb sandblast pot from Harbor Freight your in business for smaller signs. It has to be a pressure pot, not siphon.

Better yet, find someone who will blast them for you and save your lungs.

I know, I know they won't last as long as HDU, Heart Redwood, or Western Cedar but at my age I'm giving everyone a life time warranty and raising my prices.

[joewino]

Joe, I give everyone a lifetime warranty, too. If they fail I just tell them, "Well, that was the life of the sign."

[jhicks]

Joe and Raymond, you two are a KICK!!
I guess one has to be practical. the business wont last forever, so why does the sign have to last forever?
In the end, I have always thought material is the least expensive part of the bill of material. ITS THE DESIGN, FINISH, AND IMPLEMENTATION THAT MATTERS MOST.
Pine certainly is in keeping with that philosophy.
The key is the look and finish. As I said in another post. If you seal it with epoxy or poly and paint it, it could be cardboard or pink foam as the substrate.
Love that spray concrete idea as well Joe. Nice, creative idea, texturing capacity, and CHEAP.

[joe]

Getting Closer


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Will install this Wednesday.

[joe]

I finished & installed one day early.


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I made my way back to Lowes today and lucky to find several pieces of Yellow Pine with beautiful vertical grain.

The primary difference so far has been how down right hard it is and how nice it sands. The little inside border was a concern, so I mixed up some epoxy and poured it down into the well. I was affraid it might weather too fast being so small. 1/8" wide.

The letters and logo are applied vinyl. I leave a background of 1/16" where the letters go. They are heated up with one of my former wives hair dryer and moosed in place with a rivit brush. For those who don't know, the vinyl will last as long at the paint. They also give a very sharp appearance.

[toych]

Joe, that looks great, as usual.

I like the size of post you used.

Darren

[drodda]

Joe,

Can you give a little detail about the method you used to fix the dot of the second I in the word families? I was going to ask this earlier but though i would wait to see the finished sign first.

I know when I do something like this on the bot my initial reaction was that I ruined the blank and would start all over.

As I get more confident with woodworking I find that these things only add a little challenge to the project but do not turn this into kindling.

I was just wandering about your technique to fix the chipout? Or was it as simple as applying DR. Crumley's magic wood filler?

Great looking sign as always. Thanks for sharing.

-D

[joe]

D.

These are plain old PT 4"X4" post. I'm hesitant to use them since they are so common. I used a 1" roundover gives them a little shape.


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Dave,

I made the error when generating the tool path. This wasn't a tear out. I'd addressed this potential problem by using 1/8" down spiral and going down a little at a time. I believe it was four passes. Then I did the area clear.

I've made this kind of studid mistake so many times, repair is almost automatic. A new "I" was made at the table saw. The bottom sides were rounded off, a hold drilled 1/2" deep and it was epoxied in place. I always leave a generious amount standing above. The next day with a pull saw she levels right down.

Dave, I doubt you could ever tell it was there. Perhaps when you get down here we can take a look see.

My biggest concern was the little 1/8" indise border. I couldn't have gotten away with this on cedar or redwood.


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[joe]

D.

These are plain old PT 4"X4" post. I'm hesitant to use them since they are so common. I used a 1" roundover gives them a little shape.



Dave,

I made the error when generating the tool path. This wasn't a tear out. I'd addressed this potential problem by using 1/8" down spiral and going down a little at a time. I believe it was four passes. Then I did the area clear.

I've made this kind of studid mistake so many times, repair is almost automatic. A new "I" was made at the table saw. The bottom sides were rounded off, a hold drilled 1/2" deep and it was epoxied in place. I always leave a generious amount standing above. The next day with a pull saw she levels right down.

Dave, I doubt you could ever tell it was there. Perhaps when you get down here we can take a look see.

My biggest concern was the little 1/8" indise border. I couldn't have gotten away with this on cedar or redwood.