Wood Sign Blanks

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Does anyone make their own wood sign blanks and if they do, what do you make them out of and how?

How have the "blue" foam insulated signs held up?

Thanks!

[kerrazy]

I do!
I use 1.5 pine used for stair runners. I also use vertical grain cedar and California redwood.

I have used pink foam and you can harden the surface with a product called styro spray manufactured by Industrial polymers Inc. out of houston.

With Bill Palumbos help I just carved a 10ft long 3D chain out of this pink foam and will be applying this Styro-Spray over it then using a metal coating over top of that to make it look like real metal.

Dale

[steve]

Could you post a pic when its done Dale?
steve

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Dale,

I'm going to run this down...

After you machine the pink foam, you spray this StyroSpray on the foam, let it dry and then paint it? What product are you using and about what are the costs of the Spray? The downside of the product?

How many signs have you done this way? Weathering?

This is really kinda interesting and their web site has some interesting products. I am with Steve, please send pictures when you get it accomplished.

[studebaker]

Hey guys, I checked out the website for Styrospray, but they don't have an order page!! Do you know where a "dealer" is?

[kerrazy]

Again I can not take credit for the chain entirley. Bill Palumbo invested many ours in getting the geometry to work. Thanks Bill!
It took 26 hours to cut with an 1/8th inch taperd ball nose as that was the only bit that I had in my arsenal to perform the task. it was cut in four sections a the chain would end up being 10ft long 14 in. wide and 4 in. deep.
Bill suggested sealing the piece with epoxy such as the type used in boat building techniqes. From there you can sand and apply exterior grade finishes.
I have since increased my arsenal to include exteded legth 1/4 in. and 1/2 in. tapers ball nose cutters in hopes of reducing the machine time.

I tend to jump into projects stating I can perform the tasks and then figuring them out as I go along. it may be a little time consuming and sometimes even costly but it forces me to try new things. And that I find is truly worth it.

Once the item is ready for install I will post some photos.

As for durability, as it is for an exterior application but not one where it has to deal with people touching it, only the elements it should stand up for many years.

I have done several interior signs out of the pink foam, and used acrylic paint to seal and finish them.
I foolishly carved an emblem that took 6 hours to machine in styro foam and then excitedly sprayed a gold finish that I did not clue in was laquer based and proceeded to melt all my hard done work....ARRRGGHHH.
enough banter for now, i will post photos when available.
Dale

[kerrazy]

You can order directly from them. They will even send you a sample of the product in use.
Dale

[billp]

As Dale has mentioned I tend to use epoxy for the shell, and then it also acts as a barrier coat which will allow you to use solvent based coatings on the styrofoam. After using a lot of different epoxies over the years in boatbuilding I now use MAS epoxies exclusively. Low VOC content, easy to apply, and when you are finished you clean up your hands and tools with white vinegar, NO acetone...
I'm not too sure of the Styro Spray pricing, but epoxy isn't expensive when you consider the actual square footage you can cover with a regular kit of resin and hardener. I've had styrofoam signs outside my shop facing South for 4 years now, with no sign of weathering yet. You need to thoroughly coat the epoxy as sunlight/UV rays are just about the only thing the degrades it..
Another option is to use the water based(be careful they make an oil based product as well) primer/sealer usually used for sealing knots in wood and blocking water stains on ceilings. Brand name is "Zinzer" and a gallon costs less than 20 bucks at the Depot, etc. It dries very hard and will need some sanding if you are heavy handed when you brush it on. It can also be thinned and sprayed though.
Pink foam is best used in 2.5/3D applications because you can build up depth easily and inexpensively, without having too much weight to worry about. It's also the ideal surface to "practice" cutting files with. If you like it, coat it and keep it. If not, stick it on the wall of your shop for sound deadening and insulation..

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Okay,

This Info is great, I am overly excited, then again, that might be the coffee this morning... Wife bought some new stuff, lot of bean in the coffee.

How about the construction of large wood blanks? Biscuit, glue and clamp?

[artisan]

Hi guys....I've been away, but this post caught my eye. Move cautiously in the direction of styrospray if you are new to foam. The product requires a plural component system to apply properly....the hopper gun and brush-on formulas will work, but are very hard to handle. Epoxy is by far the easier choice in the beginning for coating foam. This is exactly the sort of thing my business specializes in....D

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Darrell,

Can you be more specific with epoxy? What type or brands?

Thanks, Jay

[artisan]

The easiest to use is a brand called "Envirotex". It is a 1 to 1 mixture that is readily available in craft stores and even Ace Hardware stores. Once you've used it, you'll graduate to buying 10 gallon kits from boat builders and fiberglass companies for considerably less money. Epoxy is Hard....Inert... and has a long working time. You can recoat as often as necessary and it will give you a near indestructible finish. Styrospray, Styrothane, Foamcoat....is Hard as well....but has only a 15 minute working time in the brush-on version. It works well....but once it begins to gel, you can throw it away. I apply a different formula that hardens in 2 seconds with a plural component gun. This is a "polyurea" formula that coats foam...or anything else with a fiberglass like finish. You can talk to your local bedliner guy....Rhino linings etc... about possibly spraying foam for you until you decide if it's what you want to do....D

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

EnvirtoTex,

I think that is the stuff that I want to coat my bar top with. That won't melt the plastic?

[artisan]

No Stickman, it won't melt the foam. Buying epoxy from boat builders... as Bill suggested earlier, is more economical by far, but Envirotex is an easy brand to begin with. I use it for bartops all the time....when the job is small. Zinnser makes a product....as Bill also stated... however, I'd like to clarify that the best formula in my experience, is the alcohol based, white pigmented shellac version. This dries very quickly to a hard, but very sandable finish, that forms a vapor barrier against the foam. You can also use Minwax Polycrylic as an excellent base coating. Always remember, acrylic paints "breathe" and will allow some solvents to pass through. Perhaps the most workable finish I have found, is the browncoat that goes on foam before stucco on most new commercial buildings. This can be used to coat the foam by brush or hopper gun and can be built up or carved and sanded smooth as desired. You can then seal it with Kilz II and paint as desired. The finish is similar to HDU....but much less expensive. Some of these are trade secrets, but I don't mind sharing with other Botters. Email me if you need more details....D

[bill.young]

A word of caution on using boatbuilding epoxy as a coating underneath paint. Some paints will not cure properly if they are applied over cured epoxy without some prep work. I've never had a problem with water-based paints, but some brands of enamel will NEVER dry over epoxy ( or will blister or check) without alot of cleaning, sanding, and additional priming.

As will all new processes, read the instructions on the can and ALWAYS do a paint test first!

Bill

[artisan]

EXACTLY Bill.....this is the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say "Trade Secrets". It takes many "paint tests"...some lasting for years, to determine what works and what doesn't over time. I have a half dozen different primers in my shop for urethanes, epoxies and plastics finishes. I find that Zinnser....which is readily available....is an easy place to start and should ALWAYS be applied to raw epoxy finishes that require paint....D

[chamcook]

Be aware of 'Amine Blush' when coating with epoxy. This haze which comes to the surface as epoxy cures will wreak havok with finishes as well as subsequent coats of epoxy. Luckily it can be removed by simply wiping and flushing with plain cold water before sanding. MAS claims their slow hardener will provide a virtually amine free coating. A WEST tech rep I spoke to says NO epoxy can be amine free. Personally, I use the MAS and rinse just to be sure. I use DUPONT NASON Full-Poxy primer over the raw epoxy to prep for a final finish. This is all for boat work
PS Really be carefull to wear gloves at all times with epoxy. A good friend and long time boatbuilder developed a terrible skin allergy this year. His hands look raw if he even sands epoxy now,
David

[Ray Hershberger (Unregistered Guest)]

I just learned about a product that is great for signs has a 5 year limited warranty it is called extira fiber board you can get them in 3/4 and 1 inch or 1 1/4 inch thickness by 4 by 8 or 16 footers and dsi handles them you can look them up on the web www.distributor-service.com (http://www.distributor-service.com).

P.S. sign people go nuts for the material you can sand blast or route and paint it

Ray

[ron brown]

Ray,

I have a good memory. I remember many "miracle" products that would make the spouse more amorous, the children smarter, put more money in your pocket and bring world peace listening to the hype of the sales force.

For some unknown reason I can't remember any that have held the promises any better than the politicians I have known and voted for/against.

Although I am not from the "Show Me" state, I have that attitude about being the beta tester of new products.

I always ask the sales farce - "Would you stake your life on that statement?" I follow with, "But you're asking me to stake my livelyhood on it?"

Sign people may be nuts naturally, I'm not sure about that.

Ron

[Ray Hershberger (Unregistered Guest)]

I am just sharing of what i know and the product is new to me, but i admit i was attracted to the EXTIRA when i heard about it and how the sign people like it; so i was wanting to try it and hope i will like it just as good.

Ray

[Jacob Ryan (Unregistered Guest)]

I was just reading through the postings and had a question. Back in October Darrell Blanton had mentioned using a polyurea coating that's similar to a truck bedliner. I've got some samples from a bedliner guy and the coating seems incredible, but I've had a very tough time trying to coat over the polyurea. Everything I've tried to-date has peeled right off, including high solvent primers. Any suggestions?

[artisan]

There are formulas that are better for painting than the bedliner formula. Bedliners are MEANT to shed dirt and paint and whatever comes in contact with it.....meanwhile. They are paintable. You can use MEK (nasty) or sanding for small to medium areas. There are solvent based primers that are specifically formulated by the different polyurea manufacturers for their particular coating. I've had luck with oil based "bonding primers"...the kind that will stick to glass. Usually one of the home stores will stock a brand and you'll need to experiment to find what works for you. Good luck...keep me posted....D

[Brady Watson]

Jacob,
Why not use Duratec by Eagle Technologies?

-Brady

[Jacob Ryan (Unregistered Guest)]

Thank you guys for your help.

Darrell,
Who would you recommend I talk to about different polyurea formulas and spray equiptment?

-Jacob

[artisan]

Elastomer dot com, or IndustrialPolymers dot com. The Condor cartridge system is a low cost way to get started...D