Need advice on painting...

[harryball]

You sign guys can keep your jobs, I was going to do this little bitty sign as part of a larger project and I'm about ready to chunk the mess in the lake. I've tried several methods to paint clean Vcarved letters and it's just not happening. I've tried with limited success the paint in and wipe off the excess method. On this sign I just can't get the paint off the white.

1) any advice is appreciated.

2) what is a good paint mask to try? I've tried painters tape, shelf paper and paint mask stuff from the local craft mart, nothing holds up to the machining process. The edges are always torn or the entire piece is pulled up.

At this point I'm supposing I'll need to face paint the piece and let it dry. Then apply mask and machine the logo, slop in the paint and peel off the mask.

Here is what is happening now...

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You can see blue in the white. When I go back to touch up the white it looks bad or I get it in the blue. This one small 12" x 16" vcarving is keeping me from getting paid for the balance of the job.

After this experience I think I'm just going to sell more bat houses and turn down outside jobs no matter how tempting they look.

Robert

[joewino]

You didn't mention what the material was or what type paint you were using.

It's obvious you have a problem. The lettering must be extremely small. Now you know why sign folks use a different method...or just avoid this type project all together.

What we do is to paint everything with the background color (including the v-carved lettering) and then paint the v-carved lettering with a contrasting color and not worry about the paint that gets on the surface. When dry we lightly sand over the smooth area with a block sander and then put another coat (or two) on the smooth area, working up to the edge of the v-carved letters. We use 100% acrylics because they dry quickly and are very color fast.

It's slow and time consuming and very frustrating, but that's the world of signs. We've tried the mask and such but without much luck.

Obviously you are working with someone else's design so you have to do it like their logo, but we get around this problem when doing our own design by using a mask that is just slightly larger than the lettering and painting inside that, removing the mask and then applying a small outline around the lettering with vinyl.

In fact, we did one that way today. If you are interested I can post some photos tomorrow of our procedure.

Right now I'm off to watch my grandson play Little League baseball. He's the pitcher.

[kerrazy]

Ray is bang on,
Here is a piece I am currently working on
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THis is hand painted after the fact, and it takes patience and the right tools. Mack lettering quills are my weapon of choice, and you can see they serve me well.

Dale

[harryball]

The letters are fairly small and my patience is being tried. I'm using acrylic latex paint on an MDF substrate. It's an indoor sign and will be casually viewed from about 5 feet.

The colors are custom to match the customers logo (of course) but I did buy expensive gloss paint. The white paint appeared to do well but I just can't get the blue off the white. Except for the paint smears it looks pretty good.

I expected it to be a time consuming paint job but I'm just not getting it right. My wrist and hand is cramped now and there is 4 coats of "retry" paint already. I should walk away for a while and come back.

Dale... Mack lettering quills... I will get some and pray it helps but I doubt I ever do them justice like you. That looks great.

Someone suggested Oracal mask but no model number... has anyone used this and could suggest which type would work best over latex paint?

Thanks,

Robert

[kerrazy]

Robert,

I use Avery and Allstar Adhesive Mask, but he surface has to be pretty smooth to ensure I get could stick when cutting MDF. I then seal the cut surface with the surface colour , yes the surface colour to ensure my final colour of the lettering does not seep through.


Patience is the key on your current job. GO to michaels or what ever craft store you have near you, and look at their brushes to see wich one will do the job, and consider the wall of the brush as well as the tip, as I use the wall of my lettering quils rather than the tip, but for your situation I might recommend a small flat short bristle artists brush and start in the middle of the letter and pull up against the wall. rather than trying the stroke the length of the letter.

Good Luck.

[jamesgilliam]

Robert, Now I remember why I don't do painted v-carved signs. The smaller the letter the bigger the problem. Luckily I have been able to do my v-carving and then sand off the over painting and then finish. The picture is of a plaque we did for our church choir. Not the best picture but the only one we have of it. It is the song Amazing Grace, all seven verses and is 11.5 x 9 inches. The text on the verses is 3/16" tall and it took four cuttings to get one good plaque. Ray and Dale are both right, patience is the key to the finishing. Some of our larger carvings I do as Dale does, start in the middle of the letter with a flat brush and work the paint to the outside edge, it leaves it cleaner edge. I do this also with the raised letter signs that we seem to be getting more of lately, and it keeps the paint off the background color. I don't know if I have been much help but don't give up the ship just yet. James
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[knight_toolworks]

I think if your using latex pait you may be able to use a paste wax applied with your finger or such. the paint should bead up and not really dry the surrounding surface. thsi does not work with a oil based though. but then again you could brush on the mask the same way but wax is super then and you can wipe it on easily.

[harryball]

Thanks Steve, I'll give that a try Monday and let everyone know. Today I'm going to back away and take the kids fishing!

Robert

[butch]

Robert
Looks just like my first effort. I have been reading everything I can get my hands on about signs, and believe my next effort will be better. I like to hear someone else use fishing as an excuse to get away from something that isn't working right. I just throw a few flys into a bush, and feel better right away and go back to work.
I like your work James - I have a request to make some prayer boxes and cremation urns, and I am looking at doing exactly what you did. What bit did you use to carve those letters?

[jamesgilliam]

Butch, Almost all of my v carving is with a 60v bit, three flutes, 5/8" diameter. I get them from Woodworkers Supply, and they have them listed as signmaking bits. They are a bit pricey, but worth the extra money.

[butch]

Thanks James

[jamesgilliam]

Butch, A couple thing I forgot to mention. If you are going with very small text be sure your material is perfectly flat. I now run my blanks through the belt sander instead of the plainer, front and back, from all four sides. If you don't you will get some text deeper than the rest, or it will fade in and out where the thickness changes. This is very important on the small text. Another thing about the bit, it is strong. Jo-Anne was running the machine one day and carved a sign with it, actually carved, router was off the whole time. When I checked the bit when I got home you could not see anything wrong with it, and I have run many signs with it since.

[butch]

James - Good suggestions. I have not thought of running the wood throught the sander prior to carving. That would explain of the problems I have had.
Thanks

[jamesgilliam]

Butch, Another thing we do is when I am in the production mode, which is not too often, is lay out several plaques on one board and then cut them apart after they are all carved. On this kind of run I use a machinist scale to check the board for cupping. Then put it with the cup to the top and use jigs to pull the edges back to the table surface. If you go to our site the pictures on the top of the home page show some laid out during finishing. I usually run a board full, start cutting on the next board, and paint the first ones while the next is cutting, and then finish 20 to 30 at the same time. At least that way I know what point all of them are at. James