Wainscoting as one panel?

[myxpykalix]

As i'm sitting here waiting to play santa, I was mulling some ideas over for wainsoting. I have some questions that maybe you experienced millworkers might be able to answer.
Looking at the picture here what i see are several "elements".
1) You have the rails and stiles that make up the frame and the raised panel in the center.
2)You have the fluted 1/4 columns with the plinth blocks on top and bottom.
3) you have the dentil molding along with the chair rail.
Rather than make all those components I was wondering if the shopbot or specific software could design 2 to 3 panel sections on a solid piece of mdf and just attach it as a single 8' piece?
1)My thinking was (since i've never made wainscoting) that you would start with a solid piece of 3/4" mdf
2)Where you see the fluted columns the width might be 4" and you leave that thickness at 3/4".
3)Where you see the rails and stiles, and raised panel that could be rough cut down to 1/2" thickness.
4) Where you see the raised panel the "raised panel "grooves" could be milled down to 1/4" thickness.
I see several different toolpaths and bits here.
1) planing bit to get it to the correct thicknesses in the rough toolpass
2)corebox bit to make the flutes (a flat fluted panel might be easier to create) and the design on the plinth blocks
3) a Vbit to create the fake raised panel.

Has anyone made anything like this (or a fake raised panel door) design? Am I on the right track here? Are there things i haven't considered yet? Do you have any suggestions, tips, tutorials, files, anything that might get me in the right direction? Thanks!

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[cbradshaw]

Jack,

I have made this before, it is exactly what I have in my dining room, however I made it on my legacy woodworking machine. I have tried to make the rosettes and they should be very simple. Trust me it would a whole lot easier if you could macchine this in one piece on the shopbot.

[bleeth]

John: Search the forum for "free doors" and you will find a link to a program for shopbotters that will do the panels from MDF Developed by Mike Richards and Bruce Clark. Depending on what you want to do with the flutes, you may use the "Forney fluter" included in SB3,designed by John Forney. The rosettes, of course, are a piece requiring 3-d software. James Booth has a variety available quite inexpensively at his Vector Art 3-d site and offers a free milling software program for them. When I mill rosettes I go for a unique look that is obviously custom.
By milling the major parts (panels, flutes, rosettes)independently, and picking up stock moldings from your friendly neighborhood lumber supplier, you would save a great deal of time and expense, as well as much bit changing for each panel.

Dave

[ryan_slaback]

The only issue I can think of which would be a problem is your inability to get a perfect inside corner like you could get with the individual pieces. Whether anyone would ever look close enough to see that...I don't know.

[myxpykalix]

Carroll, I too have a legacy ornamental machine (900) and really didn't want to make the individual pieces and was hoping to try to design a single board. But the more i think about it, it seems like i could make 2 long rails for top and bottom, mill the flutes in the stiles (maybe on the legacy to get that quarter round look, do you have the pilaster mounting dogs?), make the raised panels but my confusion comes when I try to make the rosette design which sits higher than the surface of the flutes. I suppose i could make the rosettes seperate and then just attach them? There is no details on the legacy site about the millwork. Could i contact you and ask you some questions about it off this forum?

Dave, I think i downloaded that pgm but had a major crash and lost EVERYTHING, so i have to go back and reconstruct what i had. I'll check that out. That might be a timesaver for sure.

Ryan, Heck i don't care if the corners aren't cut perfectly square. If i could make it in one panel it wouldn't matter to me. What bit would you recommend to make the fake raised panel design? The time to make a bit change is not a problem for me. I don't have a shop that runs jobs all day, this is mostly for work i do on all my properties (and my amusement) so if you have suggestions or ideas don't discount them because you think it's too much changeover, i'd love to hear them. Keep this going, you guys are stimulating my braincells!

[myxpykalix]

It looks like maybe the free doors and the fluter might do most of what i need to do. I think i saw a free dxf of a rosette somewhere or i think i can design one myself.
Would anyone recommend i use 1/2" mdf instead of 3/4"? 3/4" is so heavy and i'm concerned about the weight on the wall.

[bleeth]

Stick to the 3/4". A few lines of liquid nail will keep the panel up forever.
A trick I use to avoid fasteners is to supplement the liquid nail with some small mounds of hot melt, put the panel in place, hold it for a minute and walk away-The hot melt will hold it in place while the nail sets up.

[foamcarver]

Jack-- You could try 3/4 Trupan. It's a little lighter than MDF and ALOT healthier to breathe. Bill Palumbo told us about it last year the the shopbot camp, and we really try and use it. It cuts alot cleaner than MDF also. It's a little more expensive, but I think well worth it. (3/4 MDF-$20 3/4 trupan is about $33)

[fleinbach]

Here is wainscot made to look like Castle stone. It is made from 3/4" MDF. All my theater rooms are primarily made with 3/4 to 1 1/4" MDF and they literally cover the entire walls in some of them. You can see more detail here www.theaterrooms.com/Nicosia.htm (http://www.theaterrooms.com/Nicosia.htm)




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[myxpykalix]

WOW ! talk about inspiration....I'm gonna be looking real close at those pics for details for sure.

[davidallen]

Jack,

Are the rosette elements straight sided or rounded?

If straight, I saw someone using a stencil and drywall compound to create raised element details. If someone might bang into it, you might consider filled epoxy instead of drywall for ruggedness.

The stencils can be cut on the SB in polypropylene or other non-stick plastic. Just trowel your applique goop into the holes, scrape away the excess, let it setup then lift the stencil off.

If the rosettes are rounded, could you glue a piece of 1/4" MDF to those areas then machine the details?

[myxpykalix]

Believe me, i don't want to make this more of a project than it is, so i want to do it the easy way.
As far as the rounded pilaster fluted columns go, it might be easier to make them as one piece leaving it square on the bottom and top fluting the center. Then take a seperate toolpath to create the rosette. I'm thinking something simple like a flower petal pattern which is just a core box bit. Milling a 1/4" mdf and applying it is probably the easiest way to do that.

[jhicks]

Very COOL discussion and ideas here. The entire concept of fully fabricated panels is quite enticing BUT I think for the true raised and fluted columns plus the trim cap and rosettes, one would be better off making them as components UNLESS the depth is greatly reduced.
That being said, the idea is terriffic! Just need to design panels with appropriate depth detail to accomplish in 3/4" sheet stock.
Making them as separate components is still a great idea and with proper design ideas, mixing components on a few sheets for best yield is a fantastic idea.
I agree about trupan as far as weight and dust so for the few xtra $ trupan would be my choice.
Guess i'll need to start a few designs to try it out.
Thanks for the input, photos and the idea.

[cbradshaw]

Jack,

Please feel free to call me (317) 523 7301.

I have a video of the process as well as some dxf drawings from Legacy.

Carroll

[henrik_olofgors]

Like Jerry said, the design of the combined elements needs to be done with depth in mind. It's hard to tell from the picture supplied, but I would guess 25-30mm depth would be a minimum for making an aesthetically pleasing panel in that general style. That's about twice the depth you get out of 3/4" MDF. As such, I think you'd be better off machining the columns and plinths separate from the panel itself.

In any case, you will probably need a separate chair railing and shoe moulding plus something for panel ends (corner/door etc), since walls and floors are rarely perfectly square.

On the whole, it's an appealing idea, something I'd like to try out when I get a shopbot, but also remember that it's not linear assembly of elements that takes time when you do wainscoting. That part is easy and fast. What takes time is designing, planning and setting up; 'outwards' assembly (where elements end and must fit other interior details) and of course --if you do it in situ-- finishing.

Machining whole panels will add time for sanding (lotsa sanding), but subtract time for assembly, planning and setting up. The greatest help, I guess, would actually be in planning. Having done some wainscoting projects, being able to lay it out on the computer as sheets and not have to track x,y,z parts in a,b,c dimensions would be quite something.

Anyway, just some thoughts, I'll re-iterate that it's an attractive idea.

[gwilson]

6457
Here is one I came up with in V Carve.

Anyone that has emailed me lately, I have not recieved. Hard Drive wentout in my main server and just now getting it back up and running. Still working on email.
Gerald W

[jhicks]

That's the type of concept I was thinking about for standard stock Gerald, you beat me to it!. Nice pilot. I notice you are in Illinois. We are you located? Our shop is in Lyons so let me know where you are if you're interested in a get together.

[gwilson]

Hey Jerry,
I am in Alexis, about 45 min from Moline. Thank you, I like to do diffent thing like this.