Throwing my hat in the ring

[mdebruce]

OK it is time. I tried one time before to buy a Shopbot but ending up spending the money on something else. I again have the cash and the better halves blessing to purchase a machine.
I think I want to buy a used PRT 48x96 but have the ability to purchase a used Alpha or EVEN straining and purchase new. I would like the advice (and support) of this forum.
A little about myself so you may better guide me. I started out as a businessman. Now I have been in the metalworking field for years. My experience includes top end 3D CAD/CAM work. Computers and their software are not an issue as far as ability to learn. I’ve taught 2D and 3D and know CMM work. I have worked for the automotive industry designing jigs and assembly equipment/lines for various parts and assemblies (1st – 3rd tier). I have robotic experience also. Lifelong I have worked in wood as a way to relax and give special presents. I tire of working in metal and look for a way to get back to working for myself.
I’ve been on this forum for years and would not purchase any other router because of this forum! Please argue the points below.
(a) My goal as I see it is to incorporate a Shopbot with my other wood working machinery and try to develop a skill/product that will allow for self-employment.
(b) The ultimate goal being to develop a product line.
(c) The reason for the 48x96 is uncertainty. I’m feeling the larger size will allow more flexibility.
(d) The reason for used is the ability to resell in the event of melt down or (much better) changing to faster model, without losing too much money (Being an engineer I have to try and plan for all contingencies, it’s a curse). Does anyone have any real world specs. on cutting tolerances and finishes PRT vs. ALPHA vs the new Machine just coming out.
(e) I think I would want a vacuum hold down table (on a steel table)?,
(f) A good dust collection system is a must! What Model?
(g) The best software is a big gray area for me. I want to start out being able to do what I call 2.5D, like a sign with lettering (2D) and a persons profile on it (2.5D?). Lithophanes intrigue me so I would like that also to be possible but may have to add later if cost is high.
(h) Given the limited specifications above what other items do you consider to be essential to my Shopbot?

I know this is bare bones and look forward to answering your questions. I know a lot of this has been covered already and if you think a thread is really good point me at it! Another reason for this post is I need a little boost especially after reading about Gene, whom I wish the best for.
I also want to thank Gerald and Paco for the help in the past that they have given me.
I look forward to actually being a member of the SB community, Thanks in Advance!!

Mark DeBruce

[Brady Watson]

Mark,
You have mail @ yahoo.

-B

[jeffreymcgrew]

Hey Mark. Can't answer all your questions, but I can a few. We just got started up about a year ago now, so we just went through some of what you are now...

(c) I think you're right. The 4' x 8' table is very efficient, for you can cut whole sheets of plywood at a go. When you get products/services going it's fast. I worked with the smaller 'benchtop' Alpha once at the last Maker's Faire, and while it rocked, we had to pre-cut panels down to size for it. With our PRT96 we've got at our shop we can just throw a whole sheet on there and go. We can also combine jobs together, and nest things, so we're getting a lot more out of the wood (and less scrap). With a smaller table this wouldn't be as easy I think.

(d) We bought a PRT96, new. We just upgraded it with the Gecko drives from Shopbot after using it for a year. It's a fantastic upgrade. Not as fast as an Alpha, but way faster than it was before. And cheap. Smoother too, for better cuts. Most of our stuff is curvy. Anyways, if you do get a used PRT I'd highly recommend the upgrade at some point.

(e) We've been getting by without a vac hold down table for a while. Screwing stuff down and/or clamps works. Not saying we wouldn't love one, but don't feel like you have to have one to get started.

(f) we got a Clearvue Cyclone. You can build your own too of the same sort of design. Very, very happy with it.

(g) I think you're worrying too much about this one. The "Artcam lite" ala Partwizard that the Shopbot comes with is more than enough to get you started with 2.5D jobs. We used that for about six months, and only upgraded to Artcam Insignia when we wanted automated nesting abilities (and had a job to pay for that). Now we're looking to get Cut3D, from the folks who make V-carve pro, for more complex 3D work. We've demoed V-Carve pro, and it's great for the price (it's much cheaper than Insignia), but Insignia does most (but not all) of the same stuff and we don't do a lot of signs so we'll probably not get it.

Just some more info. I'd say that while you do need to plan for future issues, don't overplan. You can get started with less, then get more later as jobs and/or business demands it...

[myxpykalix]

I'm not sure where you're located but the marshalls might make you a good deal...or check the shopbot stuff for sale column, I have seen some great bargains there.

[davidallen]

Mark,

Marshalls millwork is selling their bots. They have some nice equipment and you should be able to get it at a fair price.

See the current topic for details.

[jhicks]

Recommend continued reading and research of archives on specific topics and going to a shop bot camp. A day or 2 of collaboration and meeting with other botters is well worth the time spent to get practical real world, real people input.
If you are unable to justify it in your mind after that, you're probably not ready to jump in. BUT I highly doubt that will be the case.
Whatever you buy, you will eventually come down with the "Bigger Harley Syndrome" Once you have the Harley you can afford, ride it a while, and learn about the newer modifications or bigger machine and accessories, you will wish you had a bigger, faster, cooler, machine with more bells, more software, a bigger shop, and cooler whistles.

[myxpykalix]

MdeBruce,
Call shopbot and ask for the list of demonstrastors in your area who would be willing to give you a tour. I found a guy 15 miles from me who spent 6 hours showing me his bot from the ground up! They get a $250.00 fee if you buy a bot so it's not like you're imposing, there's something in it for them too, so that is frankly what pushed me over the edge to becoming a "botaholic".

[mdebruce]

Thanks for the quick replies. Jeffery I esp. like your thoughts on software and cyclone. I MAY just build me own cyclone that would be tons better than a filter only system! Jack and David thanks if I decide to go used I'll call Marshalls. Jerry I'm in mid-air now and I sure know about the Harley Syndrome that is the main reason for this thread!! Trying to get what I need, not what I want. Back to you Jack thank you for the heads up I'll definitely call and ask for a list!!!!

[mdebruce]

Well I feel like I'm blogging but just to let you know I had a bot bought however the sale fell through. My wife wanted someone to go with me to pick it up (keep me outta trouble?) and the guy called and requested I let him sell it to another buyer ( 4 days) aggravating but as I told him I understood.
Money wise I still lean toward a used prt with a spindle instead of a new PRS with a router. Soo I'm looking again.
Side note: Any threads on how to set-up your shopbot in the workshop for efficiency and usability? I have a 24’ x 30’ area I’m using now, which will have benches and other power tools. At present I have the back wall ready to accept the bot.
Mark
6469

[ryan_slaback]

Mark, if it were me I would turn your machine 90 degrees. Unless you are using material longer than twice the size of your table that will work out fine. It saves on wallspace which is where most of my tools are. It also makes it nice to load sheet goods because you are out in the open and not by other pieces of equipment.

[mdebruce]

Ryan thx for the advice just what I was looking for.

MArk

[jhicks]

Mark, consider the following.
1) Dust collector loaction and tubes. Easy access for emptying.
2) PC location near 0/0 for easy start up and access near set up for zeroing etc.
3) Cabling under/over/ around
4) Access for material load and unload.
5) Electrical layout based on above plus more for battery chargers, vacuum hold down set up etc.
5) Noise considerations near doors and walls.
6) Tool cabinet near PC and 0/0 for changeover.
7) room/shelves for fixtures, clamps etc.
8) cabinet for screws, drills, tape,etc used for hold downs or other operational moves
9) Air hose and compresssor for clean up.
10) PC dust proofing of keyboard and PC
Good luck. Seems no matter how well thought out, it changes as your work dictates so if its all sheet goods, have room for carts, small work, room for material storage, cutting, etc.