I need some help with this one!

[dray]

Hiya. I think I posted on similar topic before but I couldnt find it.

I often build radius paint grade cabinetry and continue to run into this problem. On really tight radiuses I cannot order flex molding (the molds will not bend enough).

So I am stuck with a dilemma.

Can someone suggest a way for me to extrude this in a radius (I'll need to turn to vector first)

If I keep a vector file on each profile I use would extruder be best or?

I bought cut3d at the jamboree, it would be Ideal I think because I can cut in layers, but is there an easy way to go about generating a 3d file of a crown profile?

It must stay at a 45 deg
thx for your input

Sorry its not very clear, I just traced the profile w mechanical pencil

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[kirkkelsey]

We use Alibre Design to create 3D solid models, and it would be a simple matter to take your profile, and SWEEP it along an arc or path to create a STL file compatible with Cut3D.

No need to convert it to vector, as your image can be loaded into an Alibre drawing and quickly traced over to create a profile. The only thing required are some dimensions to make sure the scale from the image is accurate. Or, you could draw it from scratch if you know all the dimensions. We often have to draw up moldings based on graphics posted on websites. If the molding supplier has some form of 2D profile drawing for download that would make it even easier.

We have even posted a tutorial on how to convert your molding profile into an Alibre file: http://www.instructables.com/id/EOXMSZ9DAIEV2Z7RL2/
Also, another on how to do the same with a CAD file: http://www.instructables.com/id/E9OXEH14DCEXCFBLM6/

You can use the free Xpress version of the software to do this yourself, but if you are in a hurry with this one, send us an email with the image and the information for the arc, and we would gladly give it a try. We have not yet sent any curved molding to manufacture, and this problem intrigues me. I would like to prove to myself it is a simple as I think.

[dray]

THX Kirk!
Is alibre expensive?

Im finishing up a cabinet atthe moment, Ill look it up in a couple hours. Thx again

[kirkkelsey]

For your uses, the FREE Xpress version should work just fine. It has a 10 unique part limit, but plenty for most projects. If you like it and it works for you, they have different packages starting at $500. A good way to get experience without spending a bit of money.

As with most CAD packages, the learning curve is a bit steep. So, feel free to send us the info on this profile. I should be able to do it in about 10 minutes, and it would be worth it to me to learn how you use Cut3D for manufacture. We have been looking at purchasing it or V-Carve. I would return the model, and you could then experiment with it in Alibre Xpress to see how it was created.

[paco]

Danny,

check out my blog post about something similar (http://pacosarea.blogspot.com/2007/02/curved-crown-molding.html)... maybe it'll help you...

[dray]

Yeah, I saw that months ago and was left with the same thing "how the $%&# am I gonna cut the 3 1/2" deep part! lol

But then at the jamboree I bought cut3d and realised I can do it in layers and glue em up!

Paco how did you go about pasting along a curve?I dont own Vcarve, but I have some free 3d software. If alibre works easily enough Ill buy it.

At this point I am just getting used to my cabinet software and I have a few brain cells left to probably learn one more software setup so I am being very cautious on which to learn.

[paco]

Once the molding is modeled in 3D CAD about any CAM will do... though some perform better than other... I tried to see if I could "extruded" (extrapolate) the cut along 2D passes but no luck... trade off with sanding...

The biggest challenge was indeed to cut out the thickest end; CNC as deep as feasible (with a 1/2CED X 2-1/2" CEL carbide tipped straight edge) with delicate passes then band saw the rest and finally flush trimmed with a 1/2"CED X 2" CEL flush trim bit on the router table.

I'm fairly comfortable with CADs and manipulating models from one to the other so I managed to make a 2D vector of the lower and upper ends and this is what allowed me to cut it off with V Carve PRO as a 2D profiling toolpaths. For this project I tested MoI for modeling which is mostly like Rhino's kid or such (I usually use Rhino). Then with Rhino I was able to get the upper edge and export as 2D (*.AI) to import in 2D CAM (VECTRIC's VCP) to toolpath the lower and upper edge of the molding as 2D follow the 2D contour better than 3D CAM. The tricky part is to keep things in space as they are from one software to the other (same origin).

Play with such 3D CAD tools like SketchUp and MoI to get familiar with the 3D space. Download one or both just to play with and model your next cabinet. Those are mostly geometric shape modeling applications.
If you were to model such high class 3D relief as seen on Vector Art 3D, you would look to work with Silo, Blender, ArtCAM, Enroute, Zbrush, Mudbox and many more as such even though you can do some organic shapes in NURBS and polygonal oriented applications too.

[kirkkelsey]

Here is the Curved Molding as done with Alibre Design. I was able to trace the profile in about 20 minutes, and finished the whole thing (with a bit of back and forth communication) in well under an hour. The nice part being that the radius of the curve and the included angle are now variables that can be modified in under a minute for a different size molding. The profile can be used again for a different path such as over an arch or arch top door. And, the same model can be reused by replacing the molding profile. The .STL output went into Cut3D without any problems.


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[myxpykalix]

Kirk,
Let me ask this. Now you have the profile of the molding in the program. And it is turned up on edge as in the picture above and lets say it is 4" tall. You want to cut this out, rounded for say the bottom of a column. Can you do that?

Now if i wanted to take that same profile and lay it flat but make it curved for a rounded archway, will it allow you to do that? thanks

[kirkkelsey]

The model above can easily be modified for a different radius for the arc, or the "path" of the profile can even be changed to follow a line drawn along its base. I can also define another profile, and replace the current profile.

When I create a profile such as the one used above (purple outline on the end of molding), I save it as a "Catalog Feature" which is similar to a block in AutoCAD. It allows me to re-use that profile in any other application such as an archway. I often re-use a profile when I create baseboards, and extude a length around a room, or a crown molding around an entire cabinet. I have found it not worth doing individual pieces for molding, but just getting an overall length required, and let the customer cut to fit on site. However, I can see the benefit of individual pieces where they would be manufactured with CNC.

Once you create a molding profile, you can use it on any future job without having to re-trace it again. I believe on re-using existing work where possible and we have created standard models for Cabinets, Frame and Panel, FaceFrame, Drawers, and Frame and Panel Doors. MDF Door profiles are also possible, but I have not yet had any customers that have needed them yet. What we like about Alibre is that we can design most anything without predefined limitations.

While not a normal use for a crown molding, but I took the above molding and ran it around an arch to show how an existing molding can be re-used.
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[gabriel_mckeagney]

Danny,

Why dont you just use ArtCAM like you did before in this thread :

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/312/20303.html?1177172881

Then use the slicer to break it into machienable sizes.
I hope this helps.
Gabriel

[gary_n]

Kirk,

I am looking at a similar challenge that I haven't worked out yet. The slope of crown molding would be reversed. The inside diameter of semicircle crown design is 40". It is to be about 7" tall and protrude out about 3 3/4". I am sure that your software could design it. Won't it have to be cut in layers or slices and then assembled? Otherwise a 3-axis machine will not reach into the deeper portions of the profile.

[kirkkelsey]

I can mirror, rotate, and reverse any profile; and even slice it into sections when complete.

Alibre does what the more expensive SolidWorks, Inventor, Pro-E, Catia, and numerous other mechanical design solid modeling programs can design. Just that Alibre does it more affordably.

Like V-Carve and Cut-3D are now providing affordable alternatives to the more expensive packages. Design software is now becoming available at a price that we can afford. However, when I purchased my copy I never imagined they would offer a free version that would make it affordable to even hobby woodworkers. Alibre and the other packages are aimed at the mechanical design market and engineers, and being an engineer myself I found that I could adapt the program to my woodworking business as well. It took a few frustrating months to figure out how to take the design capabilities and apply them to woodworking, and nearly 6 months before I had a technique for cabriol legs that I was happy with. That is why I created our website and eventually my wife doing the tutorials at the Instructable website. We wanted to help others avoid having to re-invent these techniques themselves.

There are many good software packages out there, and I am always looking at new offerings. But, I think that ShopBot users could benefit greatly from the free Xpress version. If you outgrow that, then spend a little for the other versions. ShopBot users have found you don't have to spend a lot of money to get into CNC, you just have to find the right tools. I have really benefitted from this forum when learning about the ShopBot I was working with, and am glad to offer advice on the design software we use, if it will be of benefit to others.