Back with more troubles

[jeff]

I finally got the bot up and runnin.. I have a 2005 PRT standard. Have to run only at 1 in a sec, but am ok with that for now.. It has a PC router.. and was doing fine.. I had to cut some bead board and a piece came out and caused some binding and got it off measurement....so i zeroed it out and tried to do my other cuts and it won't cut through my material.. Trying to cut .75" MDF in 2 passes. It bogs down and won't complete the cut.. The file I'm trying to cut did absolutely fine before the beadboard cut. Am I ignorant? or am I doing something wrong?

[bleeth]

Check the following:
1. dull or low quality bit
2. bent bit
3. need new collett

Probably the first.

[myxpykalix]

This is just me, because others have feeds/speeds dialed in and can cut faster better then what i do but since i'm not running a production shop I have no need for cranking out stuff at top speed.

I also use a PC router, what rpm are you cutting this at?
Also for me I usually never take more then a .25 depth cut at a time

[jeff]

I'll check these out.. Thanks guys.. I slowed down to 13000 rpm.. I went .38 depth each time with MDF.. Is that too deep?

[myxpykalix]

I would increase my speed to 16000

[gene]

Jeff
I cut .375 deep at 7 ips in mdf with a 2 flute bit. Something i have not seen mentioned on the forum yet is about cleaning a bit. I had one that was pulling off track by about 1/4 inch . I sprayed oven cleaner on it and cleaned the pitch or residue off and it does a lot better. o yea , i am running a spindle @ 12000 rpm. Hope this helps

[jeff]

Ok guys.. Changed speed, checked bit.. All is ok.. Tech support said bad router... However.. If I lower bit into mdf .38 in and manually jog( using keyboarrd arrows.) It cuts just fine... It did the same thing when I tried to ogee an edge when I first got it.. But I had to tell the toolpath I was using a mill bit ( while I put the ogee bit on) and it worked..
Now it just stops moving thru the mdf, but the software thinks it is moving.. Like communication is interupted or something..
I was able to surface the table today with no problems at all, then when I tried to cut....... Nope! Any thoughts??
Thanks,
jeff

[bill.young]

Jeff,

How are you creating your files? Since you can cut fine by moving with the keyboard, could these files have speed commands in them that are overriding your 1" speed setting and trying to move too fast?

Maybe check the file for a MS or VS command?

Just a thought,
Bill

[jeff]

Hey Bill.. good thoughts.. I got my hopes up... but the speed is at 1 in a sec also in the file. .. What is the MS or VS command? I prob should know, but i'm blank.. the files that I am trying to cut are the same ones that I cut a couple days ago, but now, I'm stuck.. I've had it for about 3 weeks, and have been only able to cut about 3 sheets, but now I'm lost..

[srwtlc]

Jeff,

You say that you have a standard. I'm assuming that it is not a 4g controller. If you drop/disengage the motors from the racks, can you move the carriages freely? If you run the same file with the motors disengaged, do they stop or sound like one or the other is not spinning smoothly? Possibly a blown driver?

Run a communication test. Close SB3 and run SpeedTest.exe in the ShopBot diagnostics folder. Do you get a low value?

When it stops, do you hear something like the motors are ratcheting (losing steps)?

Scott

[jeff]

Scott, it is not a 4g controller. When the motors are disengaged, the carriages move fine. and the motors don't stop during the file if disengaged.. they don't seem to run very smooth, but they do move. I'm trying to find teh speed test, but can't seem to find it.. I'll keep checking.. does this sound like a driver? I do know that if I run or jog any faster than 1.0, it skips bad... thanks for the input.

jeff

[jerry_stanek]

Look under U or utilities it is under Diagnostic tools.

[bleeth]

Jeff: For irregular file communication you should also check your machine grounding.You want to make sure your carriage, slide, and table are all grounded to earth (Through the grounding stud in an all metal conduit system or a ground that follows back to your breaker board) and you also want to make sure your router power cable and motor cables are not wrapped too close to each other.
Also, since you say you just got it set up and it skips bad over 1.0 in jog, I would check my square too, although that is often due to a motor not running as well. An older PRT on original control box should jog smoothly at 4ips or so.
If all above checks out then, yes, you are probably having a driver issue.

[bill.young]

Hey Jeff,

Are you the guy that posted recently about buying the used tool with a couple of blown drivers?

Bill

[jeff]

Thanks guys.. the machine is grounded and seems to be in square.. I was able to cut just fine at a slow pace a few days ago..I'll recheck everything to make sure.. the original owner told me that he had to run/job at 1 ips too..
Bill, yes, I am the same one.. Not sure if it is the driver, but seems to be the culprit.. Maybe upgrading to Version 4 would solve my problems? If so, how long does it usually take for SB to send one out?

[jerry_stanek]

They ship out fast I ordered one on a Monday and had it on Wednesday it took me about 3 hours to install and be up and running. Had to call tech support to get the unit vales straightened out but that was the only problem I had.

[jerry_stanek]

I have that upgrade on my old PR and I went from cutting 1.79 IPS to 4.5 IPS without loosing steps.

[jeff]

Thats awesome..I'll have to call on Monday.. I really think that is my problem.. I haven't been able to go faster than 1.0 ips without it skipping around terribly.. Do you think that if the drivers are bad, it will work a some then miss steps, work again, etc? I want the upgrade just thought I was gonna delay some.. Looks like i'm gonna have to bite the bullet.. right now it is just an expensive storage table that consumes every second of my day.. I even think about it when I'm up with my 2 month old in the night... I think I lost a few more hairs on my head...
I do appreciate all of your help.. I want to give feedback one day.. just gotta figure out how this thing works first!

[erik_f]

I never had any problems cutting through MDF in 2 passes with my old PRT of the same vintage...I also used a PC router. Just a quick read though says you can't move faster than 1"per second even when not cutting? Have you tried changing your serial cable? Or using a different PC to run the controller? Just trying to give you some simple things to try before you drop $1500.

[jeff]

ok.. I am officially giving up.. I checked everything that i could and still nothing.. I let the machine go through the file with the router up, and it ran thru the file... but with the router in the material, it will not move through Y.. it goes thru X.. and manually, it will go thru both directions.. Could this still be a driver? It jogs in Y, manually cuts in Y, and moves thru Y when not in material??? I am sorry that I am asking so much.. Just a bit overwhelmed with it all..

[jeff]

Hey Erik.. I'll try the cable.. Do you mean try a diff PC router or another computer? I don't have another router, but i'll try a different computer.. I have it on a laptop. I'll try another one. I appreciate you trying to help..

[myxpykalix]

Jeff i'm grasping here but if it runs in Y in the air while running a file but not when in the material maybe something is wrong with the driver motor and when there is resistance to its movements when in the wood it is maybe a bad driver motor?

You say it will cut ok when you drive it manually? Are you driving it faster or slower then what the file calls for it to run at?

Try to run it manually at the same speed the file calls for it to run, to see if there is an issue there.

When you say "it bogs down" do you mean the router or the carriage?

Try removing your bit from the router and running the file with an "air cut" and try to put resistance by lightly holding the router to see if it bogs down that way.

[jeff]

Thanks Jack.. the speeds are the same.. I tried a new serial cable... the IO Gear SB recommends.. still didn't work.. It doesn't really bog down.. i thought it did.. just seems like it cause the bit wont' go thru the material. I'll try to air cut with resistance..
When you say driver motor, are you meaning the actual motor, or the drivers in the control board? sorry for my ignorance..If this is the problem, will the upgrade correct this? Ugh.. I so appreciate you guys being patient with me.. I've been registered a month and have posted almost 40 times.... only with my problems... thanks Jack and everyone for your help

Jeff

[jeff]

Ok Jack.. I did the air cut and with a very slight resistance in Y, it stops like it does while cutting material.. did ok in X direction, but stops in Y.. even while jogging..
does this sound like the driver motor? if so, again, is that the motor or actual drivers in the control board.. and will the upgrade correct this? or will I need a new motor?

[jim_ludi]

Jeff, have you checked to make sure the pinion is tight on the motor shaft and in good condition? Enough tension on the motor spring? If the pinion is OK you can swap the motor with one from the X axis and see if that changes anything.

[jeff]

Hey Jim.. seems like the pinion is tight with enough tension. I switched the Y cable with one of the x cables.. so one of the X cables controlling the Y motor.. with a little resistance, it still stopped..The Y cable controlling one of the X motors seemed to do fine running that motor. So does that mean a bad motor? If so, what am I looking at in cost here? could some of the drivers be bad making it go so slow (1 ips)? It wont go over 1 ips either way...I'm thinkin that i should have just gotten a new machine.. after all the costs that I'm gonna have to put into this. Hindsight is 20/20! Any other advice?

[myxpykalix]

By switching the cables from X to Y it seems to eliminate the cable or communication errors. It sounds to me like you have a bad stepper (driver) motor.
It sounds like it is the motor and not the controller in the box. It could be something loose inside the stepper motor but i wouldn't know how to figure that out and you'd be better off talking to the experts on that.

I don't think this is such an expensive fix. One thing to find out to help make a diagnosis is to know if this unit was used in a production capacity because it might just be "plum wore out" and just need a replacement.

[robtown]

I don't know what control board you have, but the PRT control board I had before my 4G upgrade had an extra stepper driver on it (for an indexer or future use), if you have that also you can simply change your y motor to that one.

of course, if you have the means to upgrade to the 4G, I would highly recommend it...

[beacon14]

Next step is to swap the Y motor with one of the X motors. If the problem moves with the motor then the motor is bad. If the problem stays the same then it would be the driver.

Be careful if you do this though, maybe leave the X motors disengaged until/unless you know they are both turning in the proper direction.

[jeff]

Ok... down to thinkin it's the driver.. I switched motors with the x and the problem stayed on Y.. so, calling shopbot... no more 4G board.. I called expecting to choke out $1700... but now the new upgrade is $2700!! Yep.. have to rethink.. Anyone need to get rid of their 4G to upgrade??? I'll buy it!