Which router is now recommended?

[br928]

I have the department head of a local university and an art professor wanting to come look at my ShopBot. They are thinking about buying one for the school. I am thinking, in a student environment, a router would be preferable to a spindle. I would also like some of your opinions. If a router is the way to go, which one is the preferable choice today? I still use a PC, but I have had it 5 years and a spare in the box. Recent posts on quality control come to mind. I have heard some of you guys say a Milwaukee is a better choice. What is the Milwaukee model number and will it fit the router holder that is supplied with the ShopBot?

Any other ideas I should pass along for a package that would be used in a university? If you guys were going to put together a list, (machine model, router/spindle, bits, software) what would you recommend for a start-up?

[paco]

Even though I still run a router (MK 5625), I can only recommend a spindle. Light work, light spindle. Hard work, bigger spindle. A router motor can do the trick but it wont be up to the machine; more run out, much more noise, more heat, more vibration, less speed settings, less constant torque...

If I had to do it again, I would find the money for the proper tool. I will be upgrading soon. Go with the router motor only if you don't have the choice.

I have both the PC 7518 and the MK 5625. The MK 5625 is better (if you ask me) but it's not day and night. The MK5625 is a little bit higher price around here.

Keep in mind that a router, no matter which, is a hand tool and should be use intermittently; not 4, 6, 8 or more hours long run. Both the PC and the MK are high power good quality hand router.

[thewoodcrafter]

I would also recommend a spindle. If for nothing else the NOISE.
How would you like listen to a router running for 3 or 4 or maybe 8 hours carving something.
And just a thought. If your teaching with this machine your students are more likely to run across a spindle out in the real world than a router.

[bill_lumley]

While we are getting to Spindles in this thread I too am considering a spindle upgrade in the near future and I am trying decide between the 2.2 hp HSD and the 4 hp HSD . My application is mainly cabinet making at the moment and I only run the machine on average 5 hours per day, 2 or 3 days a week . What is the deciding factor for going to a 4 hp model ?

Thanks Bill

[ryan_slaback]

Stan,
I am a high school teacher so I can somewhat relate to your situation.

I would recommend the router. If your budget is anything like mine, the extra 4 grand could be useful elsewhere. Plus it is pretty nice to be able to have virtually no downtime if the router fails since you can pick one up at most any tool store.

As far as the noise it surely is going to be louder but it is bearable. Have disposable earplugs handy and put the controlling computer and the actual machine on different sides of a wall with a windo in between.

As far as speed and cut quality, a spindle will blow a router away. However, if you use the machine like I do which is more to emphasize the concepts and flexibilty of CNC systems it is plenty good for that. In fact, I recently recommended to a colleague to buy an older PRT Standard model because the ability to cut full depth at 8 ips is not something we need/use often. Keep in mind that like me the machine is not going to be earning its keep in your environment. For most of the guys here it needs to work quickly to make them more money. Ours won't so spending an extra 4 to 5 grand on a spindle in my opinion seems silly. My kids don't know/care that edges can be silky smooth-- And extra sanding doesn't kill them either.

I also like the fact that my students can relate to a router whereas most all of them have never heard of let alone seen an industrial spindle so they equate CNC tooling to something highly specialized when that is not necessarily the case.

As far as the PC versus Milwaukee debate, I have had no personal experience with that but from what I have read:
The Milwaukee is somewhat quieter and
the body of the Milwaukee is slightly smaller requiring a shim inside the shopbot bracket.

My next router (and it will be a router) unless I go with this system: http://www.midwestrapidtool.com/ will be a Milwaukee.

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me.

[br928]

My initial concern is that many different students may be using this machine. In our times of “plug and play” you can’t be sure the student will have any training prior to being turned loose on the machine. While I know a spindle is far superior in many aspects to the router, it also has special needs and more complex than a router. If the students don’t observe the warm up and cool down periods the spindle needs how will this effect the life of the spindle bearings? What if they can’t figure out the start up sequence or how to use the VFD? What if someone misplaces THE collet wrench! I would think the size and cutting time of these projects would be relatively small compaired to what you guys run. In an effort to “bullet proof” the Bot I was leaning toward the router. Cheap collets, wrenches and if a student drives it through the spoil board, cheap router replacement.

What collection of software do you guys think is essential for this group?

[dray]

For a school, I recommend the router..

Not just for the $$ but for safety sake.. Spindles are dangerously quiet.

The only one I have seen in action was at the make faire and it was scary quiet and if you werent paying attention and went to change a bit while its running it would take your hand off in a hot second.

I was going to buy a spindle after seeing the one in action at the faire, but then it dawned on me that my employees are often times doing 3 things at once so for now I am staying with a router that can be heard,,

[fleinbach]

Danny is right about the safety aspect of not hearing the spindle running. Being that my eyes and ears aren’t what they used to be I nearly had an accident attempting to change the bit one time while it was running.

[bill_lumley]

Danny et al. Very good points . It reminds me of what a fellow botter locally has done for saftey around bit changes . He has the collet wrenches mounted in spring clips that are part of an electronics circuit . The result is that when the collet wrenches are in the clips the router has power applied to it (still needs to be switched on) . When the collet wrenches are out of the clips there is a beeper activated and all power is removed from the router circuit . There are timers and relays to ensure the changin of bits is done as safely as possible ...

Bill

[ryan_slaback]

Stan,
As far as software, we are doing quite well doing mostly 2d and 2.5d with our CAD software, and VCarve Pro 4.0 I would recommend that combination. Vectric is also really good about educational licensing. I got 25 seats of Vcarve and Photovcarve for the regular one license commercial price.
I am guessing though that if it used in an art program it might be doing more 3d work so you might want software more geared to that.

[Towersonline]

I do some volunteer work at a local high school. I would go with the router. Mistakes do happen frequently with new users. It’s less costly to repair a router than a spindle. I wonder if new users would take to time to perform the proper warm up or cool down a spindle requires.

As for routers I would go with the Porter Cable, It’s much easier to maintain. I owned a Milwaukee and found it very difficult to replace the bearings compared to the Porter Cable.

The noise of the Porter Cable is drowned out by all other shop equipment at the school.