Need to Make Full size 3D Creature - HELP PLEASE

[Call-Tech]

I did not want to highjack Michael Waltz's thread ( http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/312/29508.html?1207322944 ), but I am looking for similar help.

I have the opportunity to create some 3D 6 - 8' tall monster type creatures for a friend. I have always wanted to do this, but haven't ever tried anything like it. I would really appreciate some input from those of you that have. I am not getting paid for this work. I am using it as a learning experience, my friend will pay for materials and I have lots of time to get it done, (Halloween 2008).

Brady Watson's description in Michaels post is exactly what I need to do. but have no idea how to do it.

1st how to judge if a 3ds model is usable. Do 3Ds models have resolution like bitmaps that limit their size or are they like vectors that can be enlarged limit free? If they are like vectors then I should be good to go on the artwork or model in this case. If they have a size limit, how can I tell what it is? I see no numbers or resolution info attached to any of the 3ds models I have seen.

I am running Flexisign Pro 8 & ArtCamPro 2008 and I see that it supposedly now supports slicing in this latest version. I however I have not done anything but 2D and 2.5D work with ArtCam. I have created and cut one 3D relief sign with Artcam, but it took 8 hours to cut and I have just stuck to 2.5D from then on.

I am great with flexisign and have no problem using Artcam to produce my cut paths, but I have no background in 3D, Autocad, 3DMax etc.

I see models all the time in 3dsmax, Poser, Dosch Designs 3D, 3D Character Modeling, Zbrush, Rhino3D etc. Most of this is greek to me.

I see that 3ds models can be imported in to Artcam, but when I have experimented trying to import a 3ds model it sometimes doesn't work at all, sometimes it just looks like garbage and peaks, sometimes it seems to import and disappear where it says 3d model is there but I can't see it in 2D or 3D view. Even when I get the best import and the model looks correct, it looses its underside. the sides just go straight down from the widest part of the model so no chance of cutting into slices or turning over to machine underside.

I assume Artcam can't handle 5 axis 3D and models need to be cut up before importing. If this is the case, then what is best program to cut up these 3ds models into pieces that Artcam can handle? And will that software be able to make say a couple of alignment holes at separation points so finished pieces can be glued together using dowels or such?

I don't expect a step by step instructions here, just point me in the right direction with even just the proper terminology and suggestions of software so I can look up info on my own in manuals or Google it.

I have spent a small fortune on software over the years and I hope to make due with what I have available to me and not have to buy another major software package like Autocad, or Rhino3D, but I will if it is needed. I have ArtcamPro, Flexisign, most Adobe Products and a few others, but nothing much in the way of 3D. Someone told me 3ds Max was a good choice, but some of this stuff looks like it is for making video games and maybe isn't designed for real world use.. again I have no idea and hope to not have a year long learning curve with another new software??

I hope to ultimately increase my knowledge and be able to make themed 3D props and signage.

I was the first in my area to have large format printers about 15 years ago and became very good with digital graphics - now everyone has them and stock photo art has made everyone experts! I purchased my first cnc machine before most other shops - now it is fairly common and everyone is offering 2D work "too cheap" I might add.

I hope to offer my customers more advanced 3D options in the near future that my competition does not know how to make. And I hope they are not reading this thread {Grin}

Thanks in advance for everyones help

Sincerely, Fred
Call-Tech Signs

[chodges]

Contact Brady Watson! His 3D work is very good, and his prices are extremely fair.

A friend of mine had Brady produce some .SBP files for milling matching 3D shapes on both sides of boards that, when cut apart and face-glued, become rifle stocks.

I have been cutting these parts using the files Brady created, and they work GREAT!

Spend a little money with Brady - you will be way ahead of the game!

[Call-Tech]

I am sure that Brady would do a great job, but I am not looking to do a one time event. I want to teach myself how to do this type of project on a regular basis.

I'm just hoping someone can push me in the right direction by letting me know what to look out for and what software I need.

Any tips that would reduce learning curve and maybe help me avoid a few mistakes along the way would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, Fred

[jseiler]

Sounds like you have three problems here:

1) Creating 3d models that are cuttable.
2) Getting the models sliced and cut.
3) Getting the cut pieces fitted together and finished.

None of these things are really trival. If might be worthwhile having someone like brady get you files you can cut and finish, so you'll have some practice with the last two parts before you take on the first one. I suspect if you have Brady help you with the last two issues, you'll have someone you can take question to, and that may be worth the price of admission.

I'm just now learning how to do 3d modelling myself and that's not been exactly easy. Thanks to Paco for recommending blender 3d (free) and the free tutorial videos at blenderunderground.org. There's 5 hours of tutorials there on using the tools to generate 3d models. If done with a little thought, one could use artcam or cut3d to slice up those models into cuttable form.

I'd also suggest playing with pink or blue insulation foam just so you can practice a lot with things that won't break your bank during your learning curve.

If you are really hellbent on taking this on alone, I'd suggest downloading a very simple model (or generating one in blender) and try things out. Once you find out where your sticking points are, I'm sure you can find additional help here. Questions of a more limited scope are a lot easier to handle.

l8r,
John

[Brady Watson]

Fred,
This is a subject that can get complicated quickly. There are many factors that you need to consider when taking on a 'Full 3D' project such as this. The biggest factor that will influence the software you use is the level of detail you want to achieve at the machine. Quite often, detailed 3D models can get quite large if they are very detailed and created from a digitized mesh. Models created in software such as 3DS Max, Rhino or other modelling program tend to be much smaller, especially if you are working with a NURBS format model. Polygonal mesh models take up a substantial amount of computer resources, and many programs (like Rhino) simply choke on them. There are even some limitations on specific 3D format files, such as a .3DS format. It is essentially a container format that is limited to a maximum of 65,500 triangular patches in any given model. This quite often results in a model that is very faceted. While this may not be much of a concern if cutting a model in foam that can be sanded, it really isn't a format that is conduicive to clean cutting parts.

Since there is always more than one way to skin a cat, I won't recommend any specific software. You have to invest the time & energy to test drive and assess what software is right for you. I use Rhino for some things, Blender for others, ArtCAM for most things and ClayTools for most rotary/Full 3D models that need sculpting. Sometimes a project involves all of the above in order to get a specific result. Keep in mind that there are still limitations of a 3-axis CNC. While you can flip parts over to get the other side, there still may be undercuts present that you will have to work by hand. So, there are a number of considerations, trial and error that you have to go through depending on the complexity of the model. Since you have ArtCAM, you have a leg up on the situation. It is possible to do 2-sided setups and disection of your model within the program. BTW

There are a number of ShopBot users out there who are doing large format Full 3D cutting with their Bots. The process of machining and assembling full 3d models is an art & most who have done it, are not willing to share their notes to maintain their competitive advantage - and with good rea$on. Advances in software have brought 3D slicing to the masses with Cut3D & PartWorks3D...which was reserved for ArtCAM Pro owners in previous years gone by...Things are MUCH MUCH easier than ever before in regards to doing full 3d models on the Bot. Do your homework, test-drive software and try your hand at smaller projects at 1st until you get the hang of what is involved.

-B

[Call-Tech]

My apologies for getting so long winded in my 1st question. I new this was a complicated subject, I do have a very extensive computer background, just not in 3D software.

Brady, Thank you for your very detailed response, I will do some research on various programs.

I knew that ArtCam has the ability to do 2 sided setups and dissection if created in ArtCam, I just did not know if a 3d obj or model could be imported and retain all sides of model or if it had to be dissected before importing.

May I ask how to import a 3ds or max model without losing the underside in ArtCam? or is it just that the models I'm trying to use are not compatible? I think once I actually got a 3d model into ArtCam that I would be able to work with it? ArtCam does not give any indication of error or anything. Once I get started, I can generally teach myself as I run into problems and then research answers. But its difficult when you can't even reach the first hurdle.

At least for now, I am not concerned with low polygon count as I will be using cheap foam to practice so I'm hoping some of the available free 3ds or max models will give me some starting practice.

Sincerely, Fred

[Brady Watson]

Fred,
You have mail.

-B

[Call-Tech]

Here is my 1st attempt at 3D machining. I made lots of mistakes and still have much to learn. But I though I would share my progress so far.


6757
6758

6759
6760

-Fred

[winwin]

Fred
Nice results for your first attempt. I'd be happy to share anything I can (including advice). I am a sculptor by education, and can model anything you might need in clay, scan, and convert 3D model to any filetype you need. I could also provide you with toolpaths if needed.

http://winwinstudio.com/artwork/291410.html
http://winwinstudio.com/artwork/215265.html

[Brady Watson]

Looks great, Fred. Keep at it. Your own personal experience is the best teacher.

-B