Shopbot of various materials

[carter_beck]

what materials have u guys put on the bot? what are your experiences with each?

[dana_swift]

Hello Carter-

wow, thats a big question!

What you end up cutting depends on your application and imagination. The machine will cut anything from soft metals, foam, plastics, woods (solid and ply), to some optical materials and ice. And while each of these things has its own unique characteristics, using a nominal feed rate and a carbide bit you will get a good starting point in any common material. If you aren't picky about the edge finish that may be all you require.

The machine seems to be quite happy cutting through the occasional clamp and hold down screw. Its hard on the router bearings and has broken bits, but steel is clearly within its appetite, although I have not cut any on purpose.

If you look at the catalogs of the bit manufacturers you will notice there are bits designed for each "normal" material type. Bits can cut materials other than what they are designed for, the results are just different, but almost never a failure to cut.

If you are intending to cut a specific application and general group of materials, you might ask about that, as probably there is a list of people already doing it. Then you can get more useful answers that can save you lots of effort and money.

The only thing I have avoided cutting (successfully) is living things. I hope to keep it that way.. though I am sure it will not slow down for them either.

So far I have not personally gotten into cutting glass, however it is an intriguing family of materials. Specifically the borosilicates look interesting, this is a case of very slow feed rates, diamond cutters, and water. Somebody may chime in with their experience in that area, I am interested...

The thing I make most often is mistakes! I don't mind making mistakes, I mind repeating them.

If you are willing to go try out ideas you will end up with a wealth of your own unique experiences!

D

[harryball]

Bots have cut anything from boring old plywood to birthday cake! :-)

[tuck]

I cut my finger on mine oncet.

[gene]

Just about all the time i cut my work load down. Does that count?

[robtown]

Aluminum, Hardwoods, Plywood, MDF, Copper, solid surface...

Copper made little splinters that were like barbs...

[davidp]

Melamine faced Mdf and chipboard, Plywood, alucobond, solid timber, acrylics, PVC, time and effort.

[beacon14]

Good old solid wood. Everything from 2" x 3" x 1/2" medallions to 46" x 102" x 2 1/2" slabs.

[Brady Watson]

Carbon fiber, brass, nickel, silver, plastics, stone, foam...

-B

[joe]

Lots of Air.

[billp]

Don't forget marble as well, it cuts beautifully...

[robert_cheal]

I once cut lots of rectangular holes in extruded fiber glass 1/8" thick. I uses those carbide 1/4" grout & tile bits. In order to use the whole cutting area of the bit I worked out a tool path that inclined down and then up at the corner, down again, and up again etc.

I was quite pleased how smoothly the project went.

Robert

[carter_beck]

what sort of bit in soft stone like marble or limestone?

[billp]

Carter,
You can use a regular carbide bit...Most people "confuse"marble with granite and think they need a specialty bit ( i.e. diamond), but when you scratch through the polished surface marble is actually quite soft.Here's a few pictures I usually show at most Camps on this topic;


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[coolhammerman]

Bill:
Now I'm really curious. Tell me about the bits, the best feed rates, rpm's, do you cut wet or dry? Marble vs. granite, travertine (limestone), quartz (other commonly available stone at the flooring supply center) mask and type of paint used, etc.

If I can carve marble as easily as you make it sound, that may become a niche market I want to pursue more vigorously. I have great availability of tile up to 24"x24" at reasonable prices and I have a tile wet saw. Never thought of working stone on the Bot till now.

Thanks,
Ron

[billp]

Ron,
No mystery on the bits. I used the same bits I had on hand for my everyday cutting jobs. Carbide, not HSS.
Early on I used to do jobs like these in multiple passes, and I would "paint" the initial cuts with a small brush loaded with water. Problem there was that generated a "slurry" which was sprayed all over my Shopbot (and the resulting material stuck like epoxy, which was really a pain to remove...). I then placed plastic sheeting all over my table to avoid that issue.
As time went on I found out that if my cuts weren't going to be deeper than .25" I could do the job in a single pass.
The two pix above were done years ago when I still ran a PC router. I always cut everything at 10,000rpm in those days as the obnoxious sound of the PC above 10,000 rpm bothered me.And since one of these was done on an early PR ( converted from a cable drive machine) I probably cut at about 1.5 IPS
When I learned about paint masks ( I still have good luck with the Avery brand) my jobs became MUCH cleaner, and I always used "One Shot" lettering enamel for the letters.
Sorry I can't tell you much about the other materials you've asked about since I never had call to cut them. But I know from my travels through 'Botland that people ARE cutting tile, soapstone, and a number of other cementaceous (sp?)products. It's one of those things where you may have to just TRY a new material and see what happens...Obviously you start slow, and work up your speeds.
For those looking to get into the harder stuff ( granite, etc.) I think you can buy diamond bits from a company called "Eastern Marble" (Google them for info)...

[coolhammerman]

Bill:
Thanks for the info. I can't wait to try some. Do I understand that you still use a little water, but put down plastic to protect the spoilboard? You don't cut completely dry?

I purchased my Bot used (PRT 4896 now upgraded with Alpha X & Y cars and G4 upgrade. Still have noisy PC router - ear plugs are my best friend).

Ron

[billp]

Ron,
I haven't cut marble in awhile, but if it was less than .25"deep I stopped using water and did the cut in a single pass.
Of course other variables come into play here;
how are you holding the material down?
how deep are you cutting?
are the cuts "V carved" or "area clearing"?
As with many materials there really IS no "magic formula" other than trying some experiments. I would guess that marble can be like many manufactured products as well, where there is a difference in density,and hardness from one piece to the next and that can compound the initial "guesstimates"on feed rates, and speeds.
My "transition" from the PC router to a spindle was buffered by the use of the Milwaukee router which I found to be much easier on the jobs, ( and my ears) due to the variable speed feature (instead of the five PC speeds which range from annoying to painful.....). Let us know what you learn....

[rcnewcomb]

Ron,

I talked about some marble work I have done here:
http://www.vectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67&highlight=marble

[rcnewcomb]

If you are interested in trying stone... (or How We Did It)


We found who the major stone supplier was in our area. I stopped by one day and asked to purchase some scrap marble. They sent me back to the shop area (this is important), where I found several pieces and paid for them (this was also important) and met the shop foreman (this was REALLY important).

_________
Important Things:
1) The guys back in the shop showed me what CNC equipment they currently had so I knew what the gaps were in their manufacturing capabilities -- they had no v-carving abilities

2) By paying for the pieces I got our company information in their computer system. This made it easier to become an approved vendor later. It also demonstrated that I was serious and wasn't just looking for free material. Later they would offer me free material.

3) The shop foreman had access to the decision makers of the wholesaler as well as the designers of the various construction companies and architects. He could influence and pass through word of mouth far better than I could.
___________

Back to our story...

I took the pieces back to the shop and v-carved some basic designs. I learned how to hold the material, this was before we had vacuum hold-down, air cooling, and what type of feed rates to use. I started at 0.1 ips and worked up to 2.0 ips.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/2/10272.html


I took a few of the better samples back to the shop foreman -- I knew his name now and he knew mine. He was intrigued enough that he gave me a 14"x14" piece of sandstone to experiment with. I carved a pheasant and took this back to the shop foreman.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/2/10796.html

He called a week later with a paying job. Since our company information was already in the computer he had no problem getting us set up as a vendor and had the check in hand when he picked up the sandstone fireplace mantle.

I have found that, when V-bits are too dull for wood, I can still use them for stone.

You can carved cultured marble but the exposed surface is a dull gray so you will need to apply some sort of coating. I haven't tried gold leafing but I have thought of it.

You can tell when you are trying to carve granite because it causes the bit to glow bright red/white and doesn't remove much stone -- though eventually the tip of the bit disappears.

We have had good luck with marble, cultured marble, sandstone/limestone, and soapstone.

I'd encourage everyone to try it.

[coolhammerman]

Randall:
WOW! I might be in big trouble now. Who would have guessed that you could do this kind of work with a lowly ShopBot and a few carbide router bits. Great work and thanks for the insight for working with the stone supplier.

Time permitting, I am definitely going to pursue stone V-carving. I have a lot of experience with V-carving from another venture http://www.coolhammers.com. After I get it figured out, I will market that service to builders, I have a friend who is an Architect, another is a commercial builder (restaurant specialist) and I have worked with some interior designers in the past.

Few things really excite me these days, but V-carving stone really does. I recently put granite counter tops in the kitchen, travertine floors in the kitchen and dining room and redid one of our full baths in travertine floors and marble surround for the bath. If I had known about engraving marble, I would have made use of that extensively.

I also have some craft work, turning mostly, in a gallery in one of the North Georgia resort towns. I guess they will be getting some engraved stone work pretty soon!

Thanks much. And thanks for your willingness to share all of this info.

Ron

[coolhammerman]

WOW! again. Went to my tile flooring supplier and picked up a few marble tiles to experiment with. The one in the photo cost me $1.79. I have done a lot of V-carving so programming was a snap. I chose a simple project for my first one.

Although I did use a mask, it looked so good raw that I removed the mask and am going to leave this one natural. It looks much better in real life than in the photos. The next one's I do I will probably paint the carved areas.

Specs:
RPM 13,000 (could have run faster I think)
X&Y 1 ipm, Z 0.3 ipm
Bit was 1/2" 90 deg V cutter from Woodline - used bit.

Cut time was just under 10 minutes for the whole sign.

It ran much quieter than I expected and did not strain at all to make the cuts. I used my normal dust collection and everything looks great. In fact, the noise level was about the same as MDF @ 22,000 rpm with my PC router.

Much thanks for all of the info. I'm still blown away with how easy it is to cut marble. Love it!

Ron





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PS A note to Erik Francy. I will forever be grateful to you for your decision to sell your old PRT 4896 back in 2006. I have tweeked it a bit here and there and upgraded to the G4 Geko drivers. It's not an Alpha to be sure, but does pretty well for me. Thanks and good luck with your new Bot.
Ron

[rcnewcomb]

Ron,

Carve the tile shop's name and logo into a piece and take it back to them. That'll impress them!

[coolhammerman]

Randall:
Great idea. I'll do that. Probably should jot my phone # on the back just to be tacky. The first one belongs to Sweet Janice. After that, she won't care. Sometimes I feel like such a novice when I see work like yours. I'm just glad y'all let me on the forum.
Ron

[coolhammerman]

Randall:
This is not nearly as artistic as the first one, but should accomplish it's purpose. Hot of the Bot, not even completely dry yet.

The Marble almost looks like snow white granite, but with a distinctly crystalline texture. Once again, the photos don't do the real tile justice. In this case, the tile is very very white.

Thanks again,
Ron

Specs:
RPM 13,000
Speed 1.0 IPS, Z, 0.3
1/2" 90 deg "V" Woodline carbide
Regular dust collection system
Clear Paint Mask
Cut dry in one pass. Very similar to MDF just move a little slower.
Total cut time was 11m 23sec.

The first image is a logo I pulled from their web site. The only thing I could really use was the ampersand. I retyped and resized the other letters in order to get crisp clean edges.


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I'm old, but I'm teachable!

[coolhammerman]

Made another sample for the Marble Store display. I used a paint mask then used hammer finish bronze paint to fill in the letters. I toyed with the idea of leaving it natural, but opted to paint it after all. I thought black or white would look awful and wanted very little contrast. Just my personal taste.

As always, real thing is much more stunning than the photo.

Ron


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[coolhammerman]

PS to the above:
I can now summarize cutting marble in three little words - EASY, EASY, EASY!

[rcnewcomb]

Ron,

Glad it worked out for you.

For me, while it is satisfying to make something beautiful, it is even better is to inspire others with more talent to make even greater creations.

[scottbot]

I just picked up a job carving a sign for the entranceway to a housing development.
I did some test cuts in some marble on the weekend and cannot believe how easy it cuts.

Are there any tricks to painting it?
The sign will be living outside and it rains a lot here.

Thanks in advance.
Scott

[myxpykalix]

Ron,
Very very nice. I think i like your first one best. What was the depth of your cut? Was it cut in one pass? Did you notice if cutting marble dulled your bit or messed it up any?

Has anyone ever tried carving soapstone?

Specifically what type of paint mask did you use?
I assumed you applied paint mask, carved, then painted your carved areas, let dry, peeled mask?
Did you use spray paint or brush? Did you do anything to your carved surfaces before painting?

What font did you use in the first picture? I think i have seen manufactured tiles that emulate marble but what you used is real marble right?
again, very cool!

[myxpykalix]

Also, what would you use to attach this say to a outside wall? I assume you won't drill holes?