Pilot Holes

[32mmcabinet]

I'm considering purchasing a SB with the air drill to cut my cabinet parts. I can see with the main spindle and the air drill, how I could do all my machining, except for the pilot holes in the sides for screwing the sides to the top and bottom parts of the cabinet box. Is there a way to do this, short of a bit change?

[bleeth]

You can always drill through and use confirmat screws. Don't really think it's worth it though.

[erik_f]

If I'm understanding you...you wouldn't be able to do with with any 3 axis router unless you actually turn the work piece on its side. Any bit you use is always going to be 90 degrees to your work piece.

[Gary Campbell]

32mm...
What tools do you need to use to complete your operations? We use a 1/4 or 3/8 Mort.Comp. for profile & dados, 5mm drill bit for system screws, 1/8" for assembly screws.
Some others use a 5mm end mill to profile & drill system screws. You have many options, including dual drill heads on one spindle. (Or 4 drills on 2 spindles)
Gary

[32mmcabinet]

Thanks for the responses.

Dave:

I'd rather not get into Confirmats. I like the simplicity of the screws.

Eric:


The pilot holes are drilled in just face of the end panels, so there's no drilling needed at 90 degrees.

Gary:

Those are the same three bits I'd be using. Could you explain how the dual drill heads work on one spindle?

Thanks

[Gary Campbell]

32mm...
IF you look on the ShopBot Accessories page: http://www.shopbottools.com/ProductionAids.htm
You can see a single drill mounted on a spindle. The blue mounting bracket will hold 2 drills side by side. If you have any later SB control software on a computer, run thru the setup, there is a fairly good explanation and sketches there also.

Due to budget constraints we use a different method. We commonly use 5mm for system screws, 5mm, 1/4" & 9/32 for shelf pins, 10mm for leveler bases and of course 1/8" for assembly screws. For optimum hole quality we have switched exclusively to carbide boring machine bits. We insert these bits in a boring machine replacement chuck that is chucked into our air drill. The boring bits have a set screw in the shank that allows us to equalize the length of all the bits. This allows us to change bits without having to reset the drill bit offset or rezero. I will be at the shop later and can take a few pics if it will help.
Gary

[bill_lumley]

Gary , I just installed an air drill on my PRS this week . I found with the 5mm brad point bits I am using I had to slow my Z plunge rate down to .3"/second which is quite slow to get a clean hole for shelf pins . I off course would like to go faster and still get a clean bit . What bits are you using and what plunge speed can you get for a clean hole ?

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=42247&cat=1,180,42240 (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=42247&cat=1%2C180%2C42240) This is the drill bit I am using .

Are you talking about a bit like this :

http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5361-brad-point-boring-bits-high-performance-ditec-right-hand.aspx

Thanks Bill

[Gary Campbell]

Bill..
I cant help much on that one... I built my own drill in which the hole depth is set with the Z like the PRS, but uses air to plunge like the PRT drill. I just adjusted the flow control valves until I got the hole quality desired. Not very scientific though.

The bits from Toolstoday are the exact bits I use. Here is a pic of a 4mm, 5mm, and 1/4" loose along with a 1/8" and 10mm in the adapter.

6881
Gary

[bill_lumley]

Gary , the problem with these bits is the flat section makes it hard to hold in a regular 3-jaw chuck which I guess is why you are using the adapter . Are you able to hold the adapter in your chuck by grabbing the threaded portion of the adapter ? Where did you get the adapter ?

Thanks Bill

[Gary Campbell]

Bill...
The flat side on the bit just takes a few extra seconds to line up in between the chuck jaws. Learned it in the 70's with a 35mm hinge boring bit in the drill press.

I am using the adapter so that I can pre-adjust all bits to the same length. The threaded part does fit in the chuck, however, I would like to turn off the threads on the lathe, as this would make it fit in the chuck better. This is all just part of my experimentation, others call it life!

I get them from ToolsToday, they are about $12 ea.
Gary

[bleeth]

They are not my favorites for economy either. However, if you are building strict AWI standards staples and/or nails are forbidden when used alone and drywall screws or self drilling assembly screws also do not satisfy requirements. So if you are going to use screws you have to use "legal" assembly screws. Since to properly screw a cabinet you pilot the hole from the outside with a countersink, the difference in using a fuller countersink and a confirmat stepped drill is nada, it really isn't that big a deal. The best approved production system, as has been brought up elsewhere is dowels. In that case you need a drill for the tops, bottoms, and stretcher/nailers. You can use the bot for the sides. You can also do all finished ends in prelamination instead of postlaminating after sticking screws or whatever in from the outside of the cab. Ideally you also have an inserter and a case press. But then my business is commercial with Architect specifications and in residential no-one cares a bit about AWI.
The plus in using approved screws is it really is a stronger cabinet since the threads are engaging the most dense part of the substrate instead of the center which is weaker.

[Gary Campbell]

Dave...
Is there an online resource for the AWI standards for cabinetry? Being primarily residential havn't had to live up to any but our own specs, but it might be nice to know.

Our current methods involve using blind dados, glue, a few staples and screws. All but the staples are machined on the Bot, along with hinge and drawer slide system screws and shelf holes of varying sizes. After the casework is assembled with staples and glue, we countersink drill from the outside of the case thru the predrilled holes for our assembly screws. Not very high production, but workable without having a case clamp. It also gives a nice, consistant screw layout. Our small shop does not have the room or volume to justify a case clamp. We can wish tho.

There is no shame in not owning tools.
Just like there is no shame in holding your wifes purse while she tries on shoes.
Gary

[32mmcabinet]

Do the two air drills plunge/ retract independantly of one another?

[Gary Campbell]

32mm...
Yes they do. Depending on which tool you select for a drilling toolpath (31,32) VCPro or I assume ArtCAM will drill holes with whichever drill you select. With the PRS you could build a custom file to make them work in tandem. If you want them to BOTH operate in 1 partsfile you will also have to build a custom file.
Gary

[henrik_o]

Some time ago we did a library job where we exclusively used Rafix-type (excenter) hardware for carcase construction.

It worked beautifully. Everything was machined horizontally on the 'bot, no need for the line borer. Just tap in the excenter cases, which you can do by hand, and screwing in the mating screw in the 5mm hole on the mating piece. With the hardware in place, there's no need for careful alignment of parts, just line it up on a workbench and fasten. This has the added benefit of the assembly being very easy to perform on the job site, allowing for transportation in flat packs.

Just a thought, we don't really do kitchens other than as odd jobs.

[bleeth]

Gary:
As far as I know you have to purchase the guide. It is well worth it though as from substrates to installation it is a great reference tool and the last word on winning debates in why you did something a certain way.