Frameless cabinetry anyone?

[frank_shic]

I am starting a part-time frameless cabinet business in the next two years and was wondering if any frameless cabinet makers have been having success with the shopbot 4896 PRTalpha.

[richards]

The Shopbot cuts parts for frameless (European style) cabinets very well. Check out the cabinet software available for the Shopbot, which will make the job easy.

[sawkerf]

I use my Shopbot to machine Frame cabinets and it performs extremely well. I have been a KCDw user since 1998 and it too is top notch. if you buy the KCDw software it comes with both frame and frameless CNC links.Kip

[frank_shic]

Thanks for the response, kip. I am planning on learning KCDw within the next several months and I'm glad to see that there is conversion software (albeit somewhat pricey!)available so that I i don't screw up measurements by attempting to retype them into another program.

[jamesgilliam]

Frank, We have been doing the frameless cabinets for several years now. While we do not have the cabinet software and use AutoCad, the parts just slip together without problem. While this takes just a bit more in the thought process before laying out the parts in AC, we have had no problems.

[frank_shic]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Kip, how does the KCDw link up to the shopbot? Do you need to KCDw, KCDw CNC, Artcam, and Artcam Cabinet module? I'm just trying to figure out approximately how much more it'll cost me if I go this route.

James, is your wife enjoying working with you? One of my main motivators is to find something that my wife could help me do on the side since she's currently a stay-at-home mom with my two daughters (3 years old and 9 months). I'm planning on using our next house as our showroom and a workshop.

[sawkerf]

Frank, My stay-at-home wife also works in the shop, home schools our 15 yr old, keeps us fed! It can be done! To answer your question though, the process goes like this: First you design your job in KCDw, then you build your template file in KCDw by clicking 3 times. Next you open Artcam Cabinetmaker then click 4 or 5 more buttons and then sit back and be amazed. Then when thats through running ,usually about two to five minutes, you take the flash drive out of the design PC and plug it into your ShopBot PC then you start making money, I mean sawdust, well both really, sawdust means money! That's about as simple as it gets. Pricey, maybe but worth it for me. Kip

[frank_shic]

Believe it or not, my wife is the one that's been looking for the action. She's been thinking about going back to work but would obviously still have to deal with dropping off the kids, picking up the kids, maintaining order in the house and of course keeping an eye on me ;) I just figured that building frameless cabinetry with a shopbot just might be the ticket for her. Even if we only make one or two sales a year, it'd still be a lot better than working at some administrative job or doing retail.

[cabinetpro]

Frank: Cabinet Pro produces 3D renderings, wall elevations, bidding, cutlists, material reports, edgebanding reports, and DIRECT ShopBot code for modular and custom cabinets and doors. For both faceframe and frameless construction. Look at our website at www.cabinetpro.com (http://www.cabinetpro.com). We will be at Booth # 4934 at IWF in Atlanta this year.

-Frank

[gene]

Frank,
What i did was to run a small sub pannel over to the bot , then come out of there with the leads for the various needs. 220 single phase for the spindle , 120 for the controller , 120 for the computer and 220 for the roots vac blower . I probably will add the air drill in the future because i think it will be to my advantage to do so. Where are you located ? Do you have the other equipment needed for this adventure you're about to enter. As you probably know the I W F is comming to atlanta this year August 23 - 26 and i was wondering if you plan to attend?
By all means if you can you need to . It will blow your mind with everything that is there. Its a 4 day show and i dont think you can see it all in 4 days . I attend every other year when it comes to the east coast weather i need anything or not . you will learn a great deal as well as meet alot of suppliers and venders and see things from all corners of the world. Good luck and if i can help any let me know. Gene

[frank_shic]

Gene, that weaver door system is INCREDIBLE although the video on the website STINKS - how is anyone supposed to see anything at that size and in gray scale?!? FREEDOORS looks promising as well...

Are you making all of your own doors? You are THE MAN if you are. I'm probably going to go with prefinished from either conestoga or walzcraft in the future. As much as I enjoy working with wood, I don't think I'd be able to run an effecient and safe part-time business machining doors myself especially those arched raised panels or those accursed (but VERY PRETTY) mullion doors! They took me FOREVER on my last kitchen renovation although that's probably because I only have two routers set up right now.

Best wishes to the other Frank - you have a beautiful family.

[gene]

Hey Frank
Yes i make my own doors and the video on the weaver site does Not do the system justice, When i saw it i figured it cant be that easy but it honestly is. I have the taylor buddy system i use for clamping the wood blanks and on the other side it is a self squaring pheumatic door clamp. like most things in this buisness there is usually other associated equipment needed like the planner for the pannells as well as a wide belt, profile , stroke and edge sanders needed to make a quality product. Good luck Gene

[sawkerf]

The Weaver 3 shaper system was the first thing I bought when I opened my shop in 1998 and they still work like brand new, I've not had one problem with them. I've been toying with the idea of cutting the top rails and panel tops for crown top doors on my Bot, any suggestions on how to do that?

[gene]

Kip.
I haven't never thought about that . I dont know if it would be a time saver or how good the cross grain cuts would be. As far as the pannells do you think there would be any blowout on the corner? Maybe someone else does this on their bot and can give some parental supervision on this idea.
Gene R

[sawkerf]

Gene, Just to clarify, I just want to cut out the crown shape on the rail and panel. I'd continue "shaping" them on the Weavers.
Kip

[Ryan Patterson]

I cut all the part for cabinets on a prtalpha96. I use a 3/8” compression for cutting and dados. The cutting speed varies depending on material (usually 9” to 12” per sec). I use a 15hp regenerative blower for hold down. By cutting all the parts on the bot it frees me up to do other things while it is cutting. And I only have to handle the sheet once. When I started using the Bot to cut cabinet parts, I ran some timing tests. I timed cutting the parts on the table saw then timed the bot. The cutting times where about the same, but the bot also had the dados and shelf pin holes done. It used a lot more of my energy cutting on the table saw.

When I first started cutting parts using the bot, I manually drew and nested the parts. It would take about an hour to nest and create tool paths for 15 sheets. The process got to be so repetitive I started to make mistakes in the sizing and toolpaths. I started the search for software to help calculating and generating the toolpath and found the price for this software to be unaffordable. This is when I started to learn how to program and wrote CabinetpartsPro. I now only have to enter in the size of the cabinets and CabinetpartsPro does the rest. What used to take me an hour now takes only 5 min.

If you have any question on how CabinetpartsPro can work for you or have any questions on how I use the Shopbot for cutting the parts you can call me at 239-596-0060. If I do not answer please leave a message and I will call you back. You can also email me at info@cabinetpartspro.com (mailto:info@cabinetpartspro.com)

Ryan
www.cabinetpartspro.com (http://www.cabinetpartspro.com)

[jhicks]

Ryan, I will call you next week.

[richards]

CabinetpartsPro is much better than Ryan says. I've been using it for a few weeks and haven't found anything about it that I don't like. At the beginning, when I had a few questions, Ryan quickly and thoroughly answered each question. The software does the job efficiently and produces quality cabinets - and you won't have to take out a second mortgage to buy it. What more should software do?

[paco]

I second that late post from Mike. I've been BETA testing this program since about the beginning (I believe) and it is evolving rapidly. Ryan often reply within hours if not minutes! Ryan always welcome suggestions for feature request and ideas.

With it's pre-settable cabinet types and material data base, it really make the work efficient!

Cabinet Part PRO even output G-codes!

Check it out. You won't find comparable product at this VERY fair price range.

[gene]

I agree ,
It is definately worth the money. I have been using it for only a few months and i like it alot. You set up the program load a sheet on the bot and start it going . Do something else while it cuts all the parts for the job you're doing.
you can print out the layout sheet and labels so your less expensive help can assemble the boxes.

[rhfurniture]

Ryan,
Tried opening the DXF from your Website in my Acad 2006 and got:
Warning, duplicate handle found: 1E
on line 92.
Undefined group code 10 for object on line 98.
Invalid or incomplete DXF input -- drawing discarded.
I was just interested - not buying as I don't really do production sheet material cabinets - and though you ought to know.

R.

[rhfurniture]

Which dxf? the one from the link titled:
Parts Files Produced in the Video
on the downloads page.

r.

[richards]

RH,
My version of AutoCAD LT won't read the DXF files either, but a cheap ($100) CAD from the local CompUSA store had no trouble opening the DXF files. Could it be that AutoCAD needs fixing?

[Ryan Patterson]

Rh,
Acad is the only cad package that I know of that will not open the dxf file. I have not spent much time into the reason for this. I will start to look into why Acad will not open the files.

Mike,Paco, and Gene
Thank you for or comments on CabinetpartPro.

Ryan

[paco]

If a CAD program can sometime read DXF and sometime not; compare the file's headers (from a text editor)... I've worked around such issue from just minor changes of DXF file headers... work on copy...

[Ryan Patterson]

I resolved the issue with AutoCAD being able to open the DXF drawing. I have also updated the video demo and have added video help tutorials to the download page.
Ryan
www.cabinetpartspro.com (http://www.cabinetpartspro.com)

[Ryan Patterson]

To all who where interested in seeing the Shopbot cutting cabinetparts. I finally remembered to bring the video camera to the shop. You can view the video here. http://www.cabinetpartspro.com/sbcuttig.wmv . The video is 42 min. long and shows 6 sheets being cut. I would of liked to show the loading and unloading but could not find a safe place in the shop to leave the camera. The total time it took including loading and unloading was just a little over and hour. I was cutting in one pass at 12”/sec with rpm at 18,000. I usually have the rpm at 16,000 but I was testing a new bit and it was producing to big of a chip at 16,000. The last sheet I was experimenting with move speeds to see how fast the Bot could cut.