I need some help here cutting formica!

[dray]

As if Im not bust enough I was offeered a job to cut 39 cabinets, they are all exactly the same but the problem is that they have laminate on both sides of 3/4" mdf.


It is a wilsonart 07935 (formica type laminate) but it has it on both sides of the mdf. Has anyone cut this thype of stuff?

Thanks in advance

[harryball]

I have not cut that specifically, but I did cut a small project that had laminate on both sides, I ended up using a mortise style compression bit to get the upcut on the bottom.

Robert

[beacon14]

compression bit is the only way - works great. Most use 3/8" but I use 1/4" diameter

[srwtlc]

I agree with David, a compression spiral. I prefer 3/8" (less deflection).

[itoolfred]

Danny,
We cut this all the time... Compression is only way to go. Unfortunately this stuff eats bits for lunch. You're going to need more than a couple of bits for 39 cabs. The bottom 32nd and top 32nd go dull real fast and the center of the bit is still sharp. If there is any way to oscillate the bit just slightly (.01") up and down while cutting it would allow a bit to go a lot further (we haven't figured this out yet).
Fred

[dray]

Fred, can I email you? I have some more questions on this (speeds etc)

Thanx guys. Helpful as always

[evan]

I had a similar problem with bit life as Fred only cutting laminated flooring material. If you change the depth of cut by the thickness of the laminate for every other sheet or so you'll get more life out of the bit. If the laminate is 0.02" and the over all material thickness is 0.75" then start with a depth of 0.795" after the 2nd or 3rd sheet (or till the bit is no longer giving the desired cut) raise the bit to 0.775" after running another few sheets raise the bit to 0.755". There is a trade off with this strategy; extends the life of the bit but you might have to surface the spoil board more often than normal. If it's a material that you are going to be cutting a lot of you might want to look into PCD (diamond) tooling. PCD tolling is expensive but will last at least 20 times as long as carbide. (some sales reps say 100 times ) I don't know if compression bits are available but I've used straight fluted PCD bits with great results on laminated flooring.
Hope this helps,
Evan

[Ryan Patterson]

I cut a lot of mdf with laminate. I used it for laminate doors on commercial jobs (some Wilsonart but most Nevamar). I cut with a 3/8” compression at 10”/sec and 16,000 RMP (3hp spindle). With out knowing the size of the cabinets I would guess it will take about 40 sheets with out doors. If you use a high quality bit you should be able to cut 50 to 60 sheets with one bit. The laminate will wear the top and bottom edge faster as Fred stated. I did not have my bits sharpened, but when cutting mdf w/laminate I sent the bits out to be ground down (shorter cutting length).

[dray]

Thanks Ryan, yeah they are 48W X 60 High X 24 deep.

with 3 pullout drawers, in each drawer and on top I need to cut in some solid surface material for sink displays.

I have never done any laminate and was trying to work ways around having it laminated first because now I need to setup a vacuum system but its a big job thats just right for my bot.

I usually just do custom stuff but I think this will be fun..
Thanx guys!

[itoolfred]

Danny,
My speeds are close to Ryan's. We are running 10"/sec and 17k rpm. I got these from the Onsrud tech on the phone. Interestingly, he gave me formula changing speeds for when a bit starts to show wear to get a little more life out of it. I would call Onsrud and ask them them for any other tips. They are very helpful and the service costs nothing. As I recall you step the rpms down in 500 increments which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Ryan, what bit you using?

Good luck with the project Danny.

Fred

[bleeth]

Danny: If you use a 1/4" bit you can line bore and cut a dado for a 1/4" back at the same time. A good choice is Onsrud 60-113 double edge. That being said, I recently completed a project with a two flute straight downcutter which was all particle board with melamine on both sides and had no tearout on the bottom at all. I do hold down with vacuum and I imagine that is part of the reason it works. I've been looking for a 5mm compression as I would rather use 5mm pins and have my hinge plate holes set for system screws at the same time as well, but hav yet to find any. There is a 5mm downcutter (57-411) reccomended for composite wood and solid surface I may try.

[Ryan Patterson]

I used Onsrud 60-124. A ¼” cutter will work but when cutting with ¼” the bits can produce an ear piercing scream.

[gene]

Ryan
Are 3/8 cutters quieter than 1/4 cutters?
What are the pros and cons of 3/8 cutters?

[Brady Watson]

3/8" cutters have over 2X the amount of material in them compared to a 1/4" of the same size. This adds quite a bit of rigidness to the 3/8" compared to the 1/4". It is the deflection of the 1/4" cutter that makes it 'scream', and a lot of this can be reduced or eliminated with a 3/8" tool. (the cross-sectional area of a 3/8" cutter is 0.109 sq in, and a 1/4" cutter is only 0.049 sq in)

The only downside to using a larger cutter is that it creates a wider kerf, and larger internal radii on inside corners.

-B

[fleinbach]

I as well as others have written about 1/4 Onsurd bits screaming. I do not know why they scream but they do it even if they are not cutting. I prefer Whiteside 1/4 bits which never scream at any RPM.

[Ryan Patterson]

Gene,
Brady gave a much better explanation then I would have. I have used Whiteside and the only problem I see with them is the are short shanked. Meaning they do not take up the full length of the collet.