MDF dust taking its toll on me and my shop!!!!!

[dray]

In my shop I am cutting about 90% MDF around 15+ sheets of 3/4" daily.

Currently im using Harbor Freight
2 HP, 70 gal, 1600 CFM (connected to my cnc)

And a smaller 1.5 HP model.

My main problem is after cutting sheets I need to blow off table (using leaf blower).

Im changing sheets all day long and using a single flute 1/4" bit. I have a couple other solid carbide down spirals but they leave even more dust in the cuts and leave an ugly edge.
(anyone have any advice on best bits to cut mdf with for continous cutting)

Also I found this cyclone setup http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm
I was wondering if any of you have made their own and if so what material? ( i was thinking cardboard then soak in epoxy for ease of build)

My shop is 2800 sf and the dust is everywhere!
how do most of you clean spoilboard after cuts and how much dust collection should I have.

Thx

[myxpykalix]

Danny,
I by no means am an expert on bits/cuts/ect however what seems to work for me in terms of low dust good cut is this.

I use a 2 flute straight cut 1/4" bit. I have a 2hp delta dust collector that sucks up much of the dust and what doesn't get sucked up gets left in the kerf and tends to pack in and keep the part in place. Pieces that have parts cut out after the part is done i remove it and run the file again (if its a short file) and it tends to scrape up the packed in dust while the vacumn sucks it up. If i have a piece that has a lot of thru cuts where the dust stays on table, i run the table surfacer file (minus bit) and that acts like i'm vacumning the living room floor.
But i don't do nearly as much as you so your needs might require something different than me.

If I were you i'd stop the leaf blower part. By doing that you are just displacing the dust to float in the air and get sucked into your lungs. Get a shop broom and push it off, less floating dust.

[dray]

I know its not good to blow it off with the leaf blower. Im just usually in a hurry and its soo quick lol.
When I have time I use a foxtail broom but then always get grease on my shirt from leaning over the edge of the table lol.

I really need to do something quick to get hold of the dust situation in my shop.

Everything I have is on wheels and I move tools around all day so solid ducting wouldnt work easily.

I was thinking of making cyclone and having 4 overhead stations with hanging whips to tie in what ever machine im using. But as it is now the dust is waaay out of control and at very unhealthy levels

[stockbub]

I was going to built my own using Bill Pentz design or buy the cycolone which uses his design as well. I opted to buy the 5 hp grizzley because it was already together and I did not have to do much assemblying. Problem is there will always be some dust left on the table. Right now, I have a big push broom and step stool at one end of the table and trough at the other end. I sweep remain in g in the trough and vac later. I am thinking about writing a file to go over table with 3" offset for vacuum heaad at 20" Second or try and find ouot how fast I can do it. Shopbot says 4.5 minutes at 12 in per sec. But this is thery have not done it yet

[handh]

I just purchased a 5" Hp High Vac Cyclone from Oneida Air and love it. It is made for CNC machinery. I was using a grizzly 3 hp and it just wasn't able to handle the dust. The Oneida system works great. I run a clean up file at the end and there is nothing to sweep off the table is clean as a pin.

I will tell you that I used to used a painters sheild to clean of the table before I got the new dust collector. I'm not sure if this is the right name for the tool but its just a metal pc with a hand hold that painters use to trim out with and not get paint on another surface. It works alot better that a broom or brush or blowing off the table. Danny I wouldn't be inhaleing too much of that dust it is dangerous. With the new vac we are having no dust. I wish that we had put this system in years ago, but like everything else it cost money but I guess your health is worth something.

[GlenP]

Hey Danny. As I understand it your biggest problem is with residue dust after cutting the sheet. I agree with Jack on ditching the leaf blower. What if you were to use the vacuum system and suck up the dust. Run another vacuum hose with a shut off gate so you can shut it off when cutting. Put a 90 degree elbow on the end of the hose and make yourself a fixture to run across the table with the hose setup attached. I have seen your projects so I know that you are a creative guy. Another thought is that if you are not using any vacuum hold down, can you create a downdraft table on the bot to help during cutting and cleanup? I also have a shop air cleaner in my ceiling that runs constantly in my shop while in there. They catch alot of dust and are super quiet. I would do something soon because if your shop is covered in dust and you are in there working then your lungs are taking a beating as well. Take care.

[ed_lang]

First, get away from any collector with a bag. Bags are not real good at dust, but great for chips. Chips don't get in your lungs or kill you.... dust does. So, cyclone is needed. You have found the best site for cyclone information. I have a Clear Vue Cyclone system and ran 6" duct in the shop. I have a 55gallon drum under the cyclone and dump it twice or more times a day when running the planer and this is a pain. The ShopBot does not fill it as fast due to chip size of course. You should also install a air filter as well. Build or buy. They are just filters with a blower. Designed to catch some of the airborne dust. They still don't get the super fine dust as it goes past the filters. The dust that goes past the filters is what is going to kill you. Open windows, doors and keep fresh air moving. My shop is about half as large as yours so I need to keep the air clean. When cutting ply, and solid woods I don't always use the dusk skirt. With MDF or that type of material, I always use it. The cyclone makes more noise than any other equipment in the shop but it is the most important to my lungs.

[jsfrost]

After reading a dust collection article in Fine Woodworking I upgraded my Jet collector (with Bag) by installing the after market filter recommended in the article. Rather than the more difficult conversion suggested, I fitted the new filter using a 1.5 inch thick 20 inch diameter plywood "doughnut" made on the bot.

Prior to rework, there was dust everywhere in the shop, with the largest dust concentration near the bag. There is far less dust now, and the area near the Jet is the cleanest part of the shop. The big surprise was the increased dust collector airflow.

When I get home from my real job, I will locate and post the filter source.

[ed_lang]

Here is where I got my two filters that are installed in the output of the cyclone

http://www.wynnenv.com/replacement_filters.htm

I put a blast gate in the end of the filter stack and after about 6 months I opened it and found about a teaspoon of dust there.

[erik_f]

http://www.woodstockint.com/Products/18000001/

I ran two of these...one right after the other...I think I got them on amazon for $20 each on sale...they work great...are cheap and are way easier to change than the stupid ol' bag...I still get a tiny bit in the bag...but its almost zero...with two...the heavy stuff drops out into the first can and the dust goes into the second...and any tiny bit that is left over goes to the bag...as far as cleaning off the table...between run...my $100 shop vac and a step stoop works great and doesn't leave me gasping for air...plus it lets me clean off the bot every time to make her nice and pretty.

[andre]

blowing off the dust with a leaf blower?
I would say that if you used a cheap shop vac instead to suck up the extra dust you would eliminate 90 percent of your problem.
Another thing you could do is to install an exhaust fan in your shop to keep the dust moving out of the shop or an air filter. Grainger sells a great wall mounted exhaust fan for around 200 bucks

[oddcoach]

I keep a 2"x4'piece of plywood handy and use it like a bulldozer and scrape all the dust to one end of the table into a garbage can.
This takes about 30 sec.
I was thinking of building a trough on the end of the table and hooking it to the dust collector.
I would put in a blast gate so youre not wasting suction when you don't need it.
I replaced the bags on my dust collector with one made by American fabric filter.the airborne dust problem all but went away.
the bags filter down to a few microns. you use a plastic bag on the bottom and just toss them. the bags they sell are pretty heavy duty and can be reused.
http://www.americanfabricfilter.com/
hope this helps
John

[randy]

Danny,
I agree with the posters who advocate vacuuming the dust rather than blowing it and would go further by recommending that you get a HEPA filter for the vac. You health is worth so much more than the small amount of time saved with the leaf blower.

For what its worth, I recently bought a Clear-Vue mini-cyclone that attaches to a shop vacuum. You might also take a look at that.

Slowly I turned...
Randy

[knight_toolworks]

one of the problems I seen is the flattened hose. now I have not started up my cnc yet because I don't have power. if you could fit a regular hose to the shroud it would do far better. taking a extra hose and vaccuming the work piece would help a lot too.
you can't use cloth bags unless you use a large amount of them. this my setup on my 3hp clearview I work woth mosty tropicals and I had a real problem with capturing the dust. the good cartdriges were letting the really fine dust out.
I debated on going with more of them or bags. the bags take no work to maintain bu it took a few moths before they did a good job.

6955

[jhicks]

I can not remember the product brand but I believe Grainger sells a gallon size jug of a shop mist. It is applied into the air and near the floor with a bug sprayer type dispenser every few days. The solution somehow helps bring the dust down to floor level and keep it there until swept up. I saw it used in a large millwork shop where they purchased it in 50 gallon drums and it seemed to work very well.

[jeffreymcgrew]

We were having lots of problems with dust in the shop. We went and got a cyclone mind you, but there are a few other things we did that might help you.

One is that we ran a second run off the dust collector to a tube that is mounted at one end of the table. Kind of like a drain if you will, just off the end of the spoilboard. We enclosed the sides of our spoilboard too to keep the dust on the table and off the floor. So. When we are done cutting, I hop up on the table, open the plug that's in the tube, and then just quickly sweep the table towards that tube. 90% of the dust goes right into the collector, and a little stays off the edges of the table, but it's all out of the way and not in the air or on the floor.

The other thing we did is got a ceiling-hung delta air filter. Cost about $200 or so, it's out of the way, and you simply turn it on from the switch on the cord. It's helped a lot.

We've also replaced most of our hand power tools with ones that have decent dust attachments. Like we replaced our dewalt random orbit sander with a Festool. We then hook those to a roll-around Fein Turbo III. That's helped a ton to keep dust under control.

Finally, yeah, either ditch the bag or get a better bag. You can also put a small cyclone between the 'bot and the dust collector, mounted to the top of a bucket. If you don't have a lot of money to spend on it that would be a way to go. You can get those bucket-mount cyclones for $30 or so IIRC.

But dust is a serious issue. Take care of yourself and your lungs. Even with all of the above we'll wear full-on respirators when cutting a ton of MDF. If you can smell the dust it's too much. At least for us. My wife is more sensitive to it that I am, but my family's the one with the history of asthma so...

[elcruisr]

One thing you need to keep in mind with dust collection. Many of the systems sold as in shop collectors are NOT legal under the new national fire codes for indoor installation! I'm glad I checked before purchasing! I currently run a cyclone for my shop that was permitted under the old codes and is grandfathered in. I wanted to upgrade capacity. Check with your local fire inspector as any dust collector over a certain size will need to be permitted or when they find out you will be shut down, fined and generally made miserable. It's better to be informed up front than shut down later!

[evan]

I use an Oneida 3HP system for dust collection. They now have a mobile unit http://www.oneida-air.com/ which looks good.
Since I use a vac. table for hold down, I have to clear the decks between sheets. I use to use air to blow it off thinking it was the fastest way, but if you take into account how that just spreads all the dust around the shop and you have to clean up later, I decided to vac the table with a Fein between sheets. It takes less than a minute but saves time and lungs in the long run.

[btk]

Danny,

Seeing as that you are in the construction business, you should perhaps consider setting up a seperate room to house the shopbot and isolate the dust from the remainder of the shop. I have mine in a seperate room that has windows viewing in.
I keep the doors to that room closed at all times and leave air filters running in there to supplement the dust extraction system (even when the machine is not running as dust does linger).

When cutting 3D, it is hard to use a dust collection system, so the isolated room really helps. I only enter the room with Respirator.
Also helps from a safety perspective from potential flying debris.
You could get really fancy and set up a psuedo positive pressure system similiar to a spray booth where the entire room is essentially a big vacuum plenum.

Brian

[dray]

Its not the shopbot making the dust.

I was blowing off the table after each sheet and on top of that no vacuum system for tablesaw etc.

For now in one day I have stopped blowing the dust off and started vacuuming the dust and the dust is about 80% under control.

I stopped by harbor freight to buy another 70 cu' dust collection system to convert to cyclone but they were out.

[tomb]

I am glad Danny started this thread. I have needed to improve my dust collection for some time now but have been putting it off--does this sound familiar to any of you?? I called Scott at americanfabricfilter.com and discussed my system. I have a 1.5 Jet rated at 1100 CFM . He advised me on the proper bag for my use and I was impressed with his knowlege and ordered the bag right then. It is something I should have done many years ago. The link to americanfabricfilter is above in John Haggertys post. Another idea came from a fellow botter I met years ago, don't remember his name. He took an old box fan and attached an appropriate sized furnace filter to the front of the fan so that the outgoing air went straight into the filter. He would aim it a wall and the air would be drawn into the fan and sent straight to the filter and trapped and when the filtered air hit the wall it would create a kind of convection current and loop slowly arround the room and back in the fan again. I have a setup like this and it picks up a lot of the small stuff and is very cheap to make and maintain. Just an idea..

Tom B

[ryan_slaback]

As far as vacuuming the table I did write a file which goes over the table quickly. Usually if I run this file by the time I have the next sheet ready to go the table is clean and ready to go. The file was pretty easy to write but I will send it if anybody wants to try it out.

[dray]

What I did for now is I started working on a box to mount to my x axis carriage with bristles to sweep/vacuum the table with a blast gate tied into my setup so that after removing sheet leftovers I can clean the table in 3 quick passes.

I tried a 48" X 1" X 6" deep box but it just didnt get it clean enough with the air spread out over that large of an area.

[baltic_birch]

I just use a big floor broom and a smaller one if necessary between sheets.

Actually, I only clean the first 2 feet... as I lay and slide a new sheet on it pushes all dust and chips to the other end.

[dray]

Well the problem is Im making dados etc on pieces and I am zeroing the bit between sheets and I dont want any excess debris to cause my dados to be off.

[baltic_birch]

Same here.

I'm not zeroing between sheets though.

Are you using the variblizer for each sheet or you don't trust your Z to stay the same?

[dray]

well I'm using Mdf and different bits on occasion.

For cabinet doors I change the bit 3x it gets a bit confusing in and out of the office to the shop wha tbit is on what I just cut and whats next. So after I change a sheet I just zero it to be safe. Its been alot of long hours lately and quite a bit of confusion in the learning process.

So Im still trying to get into my GROOVE so Im just playing it safe.

[harryball]

I only zero if I change bits or know I moved something. Never had a problem otherwise.

A leaf blower should NOT be part of anyone's dust control program.

I vac my table first with the bot itself, I have a quick area clear routine with a 5" bit on it. I set the height manually then run the part file which doesn't change the Z. I keep a 2" hose with a brush on it to clean up the edges and anything missed.

I'm running a 3HP Super Dust Gorilla cyclone from Oneida Air. Works great! I also have a central HVAC in the shop. The registers are on one side, the returns on the other. The returns are covered with several large filters I get from Grainger with the highest rating for filtering. I turn the fan system on and it moves far more air than a small filter unit, keeps the air clear.

Robert

[bleeth]

Danny: You are still fairly young, strong, and healthy. You can't stay young, but you will stay a heck of a lot healthier and stronger if you consider airborne dust to be the mortal enemy it is. The cost of good dust control for a shop your size is less than a few months health insurance. Do it.

Dave

[bcammack]

There are some eye-opening links on that ClearVue cyclones site about resperatory health and the consequences of long-term exposure to wood dust.

[dray]

THX guys..