Vacuum Table

[jimmya]

I just bought 2 Fein III vacuums. My question is do I need the manifold or can I just make 2 48x48 zones and use the hose? Or can I just make 1 48x96 zone and use both at the same time? I plan to use MDF as the bleeder board.
Any Pro's and Con's?
Thanks
Jimmy

[john_l]

Jimmy,

When I started, I questioned weather it would work at all for what I use the bot for. So I set up a very crude test grid of 48" x 96" and cut a single port for a shop vac hose (not a even a Fein) to slip into.

Well it actually worked. My tests moved me to make up a 2 vac, 4 zone manifold and plenum, with a Trupan bleeder. My vacs are the 9-15 Imperials discussed here in another thread.

Although rare, I now wish I had broken down one of my quadrants into smaller areas at times.

At least with the pvc manifold pipe, I can just cut into it, and glue in another valve/pipe to feed vacuum to a smaller, removable fixture like the composit decking type that Brady came up with or others. I could also add more vacuums if I ever were inclined.

I suggest you experiment a little and then plan for what you will cut MOST of the time.

Just some thoughts. Good luck.

[harryball]

It's worth the effort, IMHO, to go with a 4 (2' x 4') zone system on a manifold so you can channel both feins to a single zone, 2 zones etc...

With these 1/4" sheet zones you can get a huge amount of air moving using both feins which makes using a vac mask over the zone to hold down smaller parts very easy. The more cfm you have, the more forgiving of leaks the hold down.

I'm using this setup myself with one exception, I used 8 valves so I could also power one zone with one of the feins and another zone with the other etc... My idea with that was so I could turn off the power and be making changes on one end of the table while the other end was cutting... then swap. I've never done that yet.

/RB

[andre]

Jimmy
Mdf wont work you need trupan.
I use two feins on the shopbot 4 zone and they work unbelievable well.

[erniek]

How much better is trupan than regular MDF for the bleeder board? I have a 4x8 PRT with a 6.2 HP vacuum pump and find that smaller parts (6 x 12)can move when being cut. I think the current spoil board is MDF.

[jimmya]

Ok guys, sure do thank you for your replies. I am going with the 4 zone manifold and plenum, with a Trupan bleeder. I think it will be worth the time.
Thanks Again
Jimmy

[beacon14]

Some regular MDF will work just fine, other brands/grades will not work well at all. Trupan is tried and true but if you can't get it in your area you might try experimenting with whatever types of MDF are available, if you surface the "skin" off both faces that will help tremendously.

[carlhopkins]

David,
I live west of Atlanta. I just bought Dan Dunn's 5x10 alpha.
Question, is Trupan available in Atlanta? I just bought some 5x10 MDF from Hardwood inc (AWPC). I asked for the light weight, I was told that they stock the light weight only in 4x8 but would ask about getting the 5x10 light weight as more guys are getting into cnc. I am in the process of setting up the vac table. i bought 4 of the Imperial motors and plan on a 4 zone with 2 hole per zone for the first try. I build custom face frame cabinets with VC plywood only.
Dan actually told me to contact you to get some advice. I plan to install the vac system Monday.
Any advice you might offer?
thanks Carl

[jimmya]

Am I on the right track with this 4 zone vacuum table file? My table is 48"x96". I have not put a hole for the piping yet.
Thanks For All The Help
Jimmy

Vacuum Table

6971 (13.8 k)

[beacon14]

they stock the light weight only in 4x8 but would ask about getting the 5x10 Now you have me curious about what they have over there. I have a few sheets of 4x8 Trupan left but it seems to be a moving target as to whether we can get more here in Atlanta or not.

Not sure what your layout looks like when you say you have 4 motors but 2 holes per zone. If you want to post a picture or a file of your proposed table I and I'm sure several others would be happy to look at it.

Mark Tucker is supposed to stop by here on Wednesday to take a look at my table. If you (and any other local 'botters) want to make it a small group maybe we can set up am impromptu lunch session.

[carlhopkins]

this .dxf is the plenum I made. The 2 hole at the far end seem way out there but the metal cross support dictated somewhat where they are.
I allowed for future cross track as well.
Again mostly I will be cutting 4x8 VC plywood.
I would enjoy a lunch session,
my cell is 770-402-6091 Carl

5X10-PLENUM.dxf (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/312/5X10-PLENUM-30236.txt) (36.1 k)

[beacon14]

That looks OK to me - you might want to adjust the hole locations so they are centered over an intersection in the grid - not sure if it will make a difference in the performance but it will look better.

[tuck]

Yo David I'm still planing to be there Wednesday around 1:00. Can you e-mail me your street addy?

[carlhopkins]

I am a bit torn on that. I'm assuming you mean the last set of holes. The metal cross braces are where I would like to have the holes. So I figure this way at least I can have hold down for longer pieces. I could add an "X" but like you say it might just look better. I hope to have the vac hooked up by late day Tuesday so that I can tell how well it works. I have a project that will work weel on the bot so I need to get cutting ASAP.
As for Hardwoods inc. I spoke with John about the light weight mdf. I almost bought the 4x8 LW and made the spoil board with zones around that. I think that would work out very well also. just more sheets to deal with. But for a first time I figure no harm.
thanks Carl

[weslambe]

I used a ridgid 4.5hp for 5 years on my various machines. It worked well on sheet goods and would pull the "pringle" right out of them. I use plain old mdf as my spoil board and never had a problem. Part of the trick is to use bits that fill the toolpath with cuttings. I have 4 zones but only have them connected to one pipe. (effectively one zone)

Stan Holt is letting me use his open source vacuum for real life trials. I do like that it has much more pull than the ridgid and will hold much smaller parts. I have had no slippage on mdf doors or cabinet parts at all.

Bottom line. You'll be surprised how much air you can pull through regular mdf even with a shopvac.

[tuck]

So Wes, what's Stan doing for vacuum if you have his Imperials?

[weslambe]

Stan makes this stuff because he likes to, not because he needs them. When my personal recession is over I plan to buy this rig.

[carlhopkins]

FYI POST
I have cut a few pieces with my vac system, works well. I did make a mod. I added 4 "X"'s centered on the holes. This does help as it increases the area of the outlet air escape.
I cut a small 8x10 piece for a sample (real life project) it held great I was very impressed. Well the piece needed some adjusting so I cut yet another. Did not get the same results after the spoil board had been cut. I am able to cut the production run as is but I will work on the vac as I can after this project.
Carl

[tomp]

I bought a shopbot 4'X8'with 4 zones vaccum table ready from previous owner. It need vaccum, Fein III is that a shop vaccum? and Trupan is similar like MDF sheet at HomeDepote? Please give me some advise 2 Fein III and MDF or Trupan will work for my table? I live in Portland, Oregon where can I buy them? All helps will be appreciated.
Tom,

[gigdog]

Does anyone know where to buy Trupan in or around the Greenville, SC area?

[tomp]

Jimmy! Did you build your vaccum table yet? If you did, is it working good for you. I want to buy 2 of Fein III vaccum like your to hook them up to my table but I am not pretty sure it will hold material good as the all the people discussing in the forum. I have seen it works with regenerative blower but never seen it works with shop vaccum. Thank you for your help.

[ljdm]

Tom - the Feins work as well as everybody says. I usually only use two for either full sheets or more difficult hold-downs, otherwise one will do the job most of the time. Depends on how you set up the table as far as zones, masking off areas you don't use, closing valves to unused areas, etc....
Bottom line - they do work very well.

[carlhopkins]

Raymond, I just spoke with Paul at Hardwoods (Atlanta) the light weight MDF is very similar. The sheet size is the issue for us here. A 4x8 and 4x10 are available. This should be the same for you as well. I am using the regular 5x10 MDF for now with (4) pumps from Impierial. Works well!

[tomp]

Thank you very much Lou. I've called Trupan but they don't have any distributor in my area (Portland, Oregon) and I will give it a try with a regular 3/4" MDF at HomeDepot see what is going on. Can I have any advise through your experience beside that regular MDF?

[tomp]

Lou, there is no Trupan distributor in my area (Portland, Or) the only thing I can find is regular 3/4" MDF at Homedepot. Do you have any idea of different material use for bleed board?

[cabnet636]

the fellows at wurth in greenville sc suggested i use ldf. any thoughts?

jim mcgrew

[Gary Campbell]

James...
Some brands just seem to flow better than others. Try the LDF, maybe check to see if anyone carries ULDF (ultra light) make sure you take a skin off both sides to remove the smooth faces.
Gary

[cnc_works]

Tom, Continental Hardwoods on Portland Highway told me they carried MDF light specifically for CNC guys. I talked to them about Trupan, but I guess there is just not enough interest to bring it in.

I suppose it is possible that if every one of us in the Portland area called them for Trupan, they might be more inclined to stock it.

Donn

[wayne_walker]

Tom,

I started with HD MDF and switched to MDF Light, it seems to work much better.

Wayne

[tomp]

Don, Can I have their phone number? I have order 2 sheet through Lumbermens BLDG some body in the forum mention about Plum Creek Board. It will deliver on Monday and I will try it out. Do you have idea about this material?

[tomp]

Wayne, Where can I find the MDF Light? Homedepot and Lowe's cary only 1 type of MDF.

[mike_ross]

Crosscut Hardwoods stocks MDF Lite in portland. They are a retail division of Emerson located in The NW Industrial area.

Mike Ross