Not your typical Vacuum thread...

[edcoleman]

I was reading another forum on wood finishing regarding the shelf life of finishes. There was talk of “bloxyen” which is supposed to fill the air space with an inert gas and extend the life of the finish (this stuff didn’t get too much support from the users who posted). Then someone posed the idea of storing finishes in vacuum sealed containers. The theory was - if there's no air/oxygen in the container the finish will last longer.

Has anyone here ever tried this? On the face of it, it seems to make sense....

[Keith Blaine (Unregistered Guest)]

I haven't tried it, but I think it would actually work better. Bloxygen is typically used for oil based varnishes (waterlox), which develop a skin after you've used up about 1/2 the can. Many people report that the product sucks and the last 1/4 of the can still gets wasted.

I like the vacuum idea. You'd need a jar that can support the vacuum... although it's only about 12psi so I guess it's not too bad. Probably use a schraeder valve on the lid, and pump the air out with a gast rotary vane pump.

[gerald_d]

Won't you suck the volatiles out of the liquid?

[Brady Watson]

...and is your vacuum explosion proof?

Bloxygen is used to keep urethane rubber & plastic liquids from the ill effects of oxidation. I bet that you could do it with argon or CO2 if it came down to it.

-B

[edcoleman]

Brady:

I was thinking more along the lines of a low tech solution like here:

http://baldmountaincoffee.com/page/BMCC/PROD/Vacuum_Storage/VV_2885450

it is a vacuum storage container for coffee with a hand pump.

Actually it was "waterlox" that I was storing, funny that Kieth should bring that up specifically. After about 4 months in a half full mason jar it went bad.

I think I'll try an experiment - get two containers from the above link and half fill them. One I'll pull a vacuum on the other not. Sit on a shelf for 6 months and we'll see what happens.

This isn't a really big problem for me, I just thought it was an intersting storage option that might extend shelf life...I'll post the results 'round about August


-Ed

[Brady Watson]

Hey Ed,
I wonder of a rubber or plastic membrane placed over the mouth of the jar and one of those Ball jar vacs would do the trick? This way, no solvent get sucked thru the vac and the membrane pushes everything else out down to the surface of the liquid...It would probably work, but make sure it isn't too full! Many liquids like to expand when under vacuum.

-B

[bill.young]

Somewhere I've run across storage jars that were made like bellows...maybe for storing photo developing stuff? You put the liquid in the "jar" and then collapsed it until there wasn't any air left inside. Something like that might work...

I worked with a guy that did a lot of varnishing and he would exhale into a can of varnish before closing it...said that the carbon dioxide in his breath kept the varnish from skinning over. Seemed to work.

Bill

[billp]

Ed,
You could also look into the "Pump 'N Seal" device (http://www.pump-n-seal.com/) which was originally made to preserve food. I bought one a few years back when I was looking to do something similar. The advantage of this sytem is that you can use regular mason jars which are cheaper than the specialty containers other systems require.
It's simplicity in itself; first you poke a small hole in the top of a container with a pin. Then you place a small plastic "flap" over that hole (it has an adhesive strip similar to a band aid which fastens the strip over the hole, but allows up/down movement). Then you place the hand operated pump over the flap covered hole and pump the spring loaded unit to generate vacuum. As the pump draws air OUT of the container the flap is pulled upwards. Between strokes the vacuum now in the container draws the flap back down against the top as a seal. When you are finished with the process you remove the pump unit, and the flap holds itself in place.
The unit coats about $20 US. Might also work for other processes as well...

[oddcoach]

i have been using old 2 liter soda bottles to store waterlox. just transfer the leftover stuff to the soda bottle squeeze out the air and put the cap on.
it works up to about a 1/2 full bottle then i just use the 20 oz bottles. can't get muh more low tech

[bleeth]

You can always pour it into a wine bottle and use a vacuum cork!! Really though, the exhale routine works and is improved by turning the can over and storing it upside down. I'll bet a lot of you remember when Famowood cans were actually labelled upside down to encourage longevity of product. Even though they stopped that labelling process the trick still works. You don't need to blow money on "gizmos" to accomplish the job.

[joe]

Here's an old trick I used for years to keep my Gold Size fresh. This is a varnish material which thickens with exposure to oxygen. I think this technique will work for all distilate materials stored in smaller containers.

To keep my painting solutions fresh, over a long time, I blow carbondioxide into the can, and quickly replace the top. If you want to get really High TECH, you could use a straw.

Sound stupid but works like a dream.

J.

[gerald_d]

Joe, by "carbondioxide" do you mean just your breath? If so, you are not going to be much good at mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.

[edcoleman]

Joe:

I've read about people exhaling into cans - and some folks swear by it. Another "trick" that I've read about was (specifically for waterlox) is to add water to the container until the level reaches the top. Apparently the oil will float on top of the water and not mix at all. This will eliminate any air space in the container.

I don't know if I really trust this, but....

[edcoleman]

Update:

I've tried the product referenced above

http://baldmountaincoffee.com/page/BMCC/PROD/Vacuum_Storage/VV_2885450

Storing a small amount of waterlox (I filled the cup about 1") and pulled a vacuum on the container with the hand pump that came with the canister. After only a few weeks the stuff turned to jelly even though the vacuum was still present (scientifically verified by the slurping sound when I opened it up this morning)

-Ed

PS: does anybody want a slightly used coffee container??