Pour in epoxy filler to inlay

[drodda]

What do you use to fill an inlayed groove to give it color. I have seen this as an example before on here but can't find it now. What material or brand name of material do you use to make a faux inlay like a simple line or even a text pattern fill then sand smooth?

-D

[chodges]

We just use 2-part epoxy glue. Just mix it with the hardener on a piece of cardboard or a paper plate, and over-fill your recess so you can sand it flush later.

Here's a trick you might benefit from: Epoxy glue typically has no color. To color it nice and black, mix it with some of the powder from a discarded copier or laser printer cartridge. This works great!

Other colors can be made the same way, but discarded color laser printer cartridges are harder to find. Check with a store like Kinko's for these.

Hope this helps!

[phil_o]

I bought powdered "paint" at a local crafts store and mixed it with 5 minute epoxy. It worked great.

[dakers]

you can google West Systems. they have some products. They all say it is not for long term exterior use. we mix the two component polyurethane with enamel up to 10% or you can use powder. even corian dust. the additive helps with uv resistance but too much additive causes adhesion problems they say. we have studied inlays we have had outside for several years and the start to chalk and crack. We drill small holes in bottom of route before pouring inlay to help it stick better. West has color additives too.

[ed_lang]

Go to Lowes and get the fiberglass resin in gallon cans.

[rb99]

I would look for outdoor pigments...the colour copier toner fades in sunlight. I have a large format outdoor printer- go to sign companies and get the empty cartridges.

RB

[cabnet636]

you can purchase color adhesives from a solid surface supplier, many will sell you the adhesive but not the material, chemcore/dovae will ship it to you, the big deal is the gun you need to mix it,

integra is the adhesive and the color chart and ordering are here

http://www.webbsupplyinc.com/html/integra_adhesives.html

jim

[joe]

Dave,

There's probably a dozen ways to do this, however I'm fond of the epoxy method. Some of it comes very thin, like West Epoxy others like Precision Board HC is thick and syrupy. I like the thicker material. As stated earlier it can be colored but this is the last step. I like good old One Shot.

For your application I'd use a Veteranrian hypo syrenge. These come in several sizes. Get the largest. The tips are all the same size. To keep the Epoxy from setting up too fast and clogging up the syrence, you can keep the mixture in a cold water bath. I can get about 45 minutes working time.

I like to put some 2" masking tape across the bottom of the letters. This allows me to move from letter to letter with no accidents.

The final step is a quick mist with Denatured Alchohol. A very light mist, from a spritzer bottle will bring up the bubbles and give a glass smooth surface.

Everyone should know this techniques isn't stable outdoors if facing the sun. I've noticed my black letters developed a gray haze and ever so slightly shurnk away from the edges within a year. That's probably because Epoxy isn't UV stable.

Good Luck

[cabnet636]

i will note that all of my applications have been indoors!

jim

[steve_fedor]

I wonder if gelcoat would hold-up to the elements.

http://www.fibreglast.com/category.php?categorycode=94&trksrc=HelpfulProdnts .

[bill.young]

I have no experience with filling inlays like this but do have a lot of experience with all kinds of resins used in boatbuilding.

Polyester resin has 2 properties that I think might cause problem. One is that it's pretty brittle when cured which could be a problem if there's much material movement, but the one that I would worry about more is that it shrinks when it cures, which might keep it from having a good bond with the cut.

If I was doing this I'd feel better with epoxy...

Bill

[drodda]

This is meant for use on a table top indoors to fill some inlay designs. The customer wanted a few ideas to get a design on the table besides the typical v-carved groove. I was going to use a wood inlay but thought maybe the solid color of an epoxy might add a different look.

Not sure though after hearing all the horror stories about shrinkage and such?

[cabnet636]

dave i have done many a bat top and several very thick and one that was 8 inches deep, filled the base with sand and some items to look like the bottom of the ocean, filled in slowly and over three weeks of daily pouring, 140 gallons over 4 weeks of twice daily pours (lot of money) the place was known as club malibu, did one for a bar owner who got impatient with us and tried to pour on his own in one night and against our knowledge, he tried to pour over 1 inch thick to fill in a logo, it cracked from the heat stress and mucked his bar up big time!! i was always able to get a client to listen to me after that all i had to do was take them to that bar for a few minutes and show them what he did!!! (it looked real bad) i would not wory about using a little epoxy to fill in letters such as a vcarve, the wood will shrink before the epoxy when used outdoors, for an interior application to fill in a carve on a table i would not think twice about it, just remember if it is a broad area do not fill more than 1/8 to 1/4" inch at a time, for lettering just fill it and sand.

always test a piece before a major pour, i poured the table below in 02 and it still looks great

jim




7161

[ed_lang]

After reading Bill Youngs post quoted below, I would not use the material that I posted above that I get from Lowes. It works great for what I use it for, spoilboards and small inside projects. Sorry I lead you down a wrong path. Thanks Bill for pointing this negative property out before problems happened.

"Polyester resin has 2 properties that I think might cause problem. One is that it's pretty brittle when cured which could be a problem if there's much material movement, but the one that I would worry about more is that it shrinks when it cures, which might keep it from having a good bond with the cut."

[cabnet636]

i have used an awful lot of greers products with success

http://stores.ebay.com/AeroMarine-Products

http://www.jgreer.com/

[cabnet636]

on a further note you could use casting resins, easy to color and no shrinkage! i have some of this on my desk and can photo on monday,

http://www.jgreer.com/casting%20resin.htm

[alister]

I used the coloring linked below to do my floor...worked for me.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=7886&familyName=Evercoat+Color ing+Agents (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=7886&familyName=Evercoat+Color ing+Agents)

[waynelocke]

I don't have any experience with this but check out http://www.inlacebook.com/text/products/inlace-kits.html?gclid=CICghczr7pgCFRRhnAodT1vT1w. This seems to be what you are looking for.

[dakers]

Here is what the guy at West Systems told me
Dick:

Epoxy typically does not hold up well with exposure to sunlight. It initially looses its gloss and the color can change fairly quickly and eventually it becomes yellow and chalky. You can protect it for exterior applications by applying a good varnish or one or two part clear polyurethane (this is the best of the three) over it. If you use high percentages of dry pigment or mineral base powders like stone dust the epoxy holds up much better. It looses its gloss with exposure to the sun but retains the base color because the pigment and stone particles cast shadows that protect the epoxy below. If you get a chance and if you are interested, give me a call next week and I can fill you in with more information on the topic.

Best regards,

Tom Pawlak

Technical Service

I called him and here are the west system products he recommended for exterior.

I called them./
They said use the 105 with 206 hardner. The 206 does not turn yellow as fast.
Also they said we can buy the 404 high density filler. It is off white but he says it looks white.
He said we can also use thinset grout. Pour the resin and while resin is wet apply the thinset grout . When dry vacuum off.
He said that would also protect the resin from uv.

[dakers]

continue from above post
We have also used one shot lettering enamel to color the resin. I should mention that our application is always outdoors and alway using polyethylene sheets as the substrate we rout.

[dakers]

Here is what ETI told us: We had been using their products but not now.



We've nothing in our line that will survive weather conditions; our coatings can crack and also delaminate from surfaces. Perhaps look into acrylic resin instead as we understand it's less sensitive to those temperature changes and maintains clarity as well. Thanks

Hilary Stephens
Customer Service Representative
ETI
Phone 707-443-9323
FAX 707-443-7962
hstephens@eti-usa.com (mailto:hstephens@eti-usa.com)

[dakers]

Here is info we received from Polytek
they seem to have a product we can use too.




>Hello Dick,
>
>We do have some clear casting resins, usually an epoxy based material is recommended for outdoors. Our Polypoxy Series does have a yellow tint to it and can be colored w/ dyes or tints. You can add the UV additive to the Polypoxy Series too. The PolyOptic is our water clear system, but this is a polyurethane product, so even w/ UV additive the PolyOptic will degrade overtime outdoors if unprotected. You can have success if Polyurethanes are painted and or clear coated w/ UV stable paints to protect this type of resin. UV additive slows down the yellowing and degrading processes of the resins, it will not make the "UV Stable", just "UV resistant". I hope this helps, I will attach our complete price sheet and our technical bulletins for these products.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jill Spohn
>Technical Sales
>Polytek Development Corp
>800-858-5990



10 pounds of polytek 1410 is about $160.00 Not sure how much is 10 pounds.
The uv additive is approx. $24.00 for 4 oz. it says you can add 1% by weight for uv protection up to 2 years and 3% for 5 years or better. We would only need the 1% with the coloring additive.
Poly color additive in red, yellow ,brown, green, blue and black. These are $28.00 for 4 oz. we may not need these really.

[dakers]

I appreciate all these posts. I ave been really trying to figure this resin pour out.

I narrowed it to the West System but never heard of the ones mentioned in the posts.

Thanks to Dave Rodda for bringing us together.

[cabnet636]

west is real good and just cost more money

jim

[drodda]

We have a winner!!!!!! Jonny tell everyone what Wayne has won!!! He has won the thanks and admiration of the shopbot comunity. Thanks to everyone else, I was surpirsed by all the discussion about this. I ordered The Inlace inlay product and I will report back once I have a chance to use it and test it. That product is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again Wayne.

P.S. sorry no money or beer Just a big Thank you!!!


-D

[bill_moore]

One of my customers invented Inlace. He has since sold the formula. It should give you great results.
Bill

[ckurak]

Bill,

Do you, or anyone else, know how large of an area one could cover with Inlace?

I have a project where we may want to inlay a multiple color pattern in a wood counter. The counter is about 25" across and made of wood veneer over Extira (water-resistant MDF). The pattern would be roughly a circular shape with a 20" diameter.

Any thoughts if this would work? It also sounds like it might be expensive, given the amount of surface area. How thick would the Inlace need to be?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Charles

[Rad1]

If you are looking for a real selection of casting resins, and color pigments check out smooth-on. smoothon.com They have an assortment of epoxies and tint-able urethane plastics. I have used their plat-cure silicone to make molds to reproduce products i have made.

[dakers]

to continue the resin pour discussion:
we are going to be testing using colored smalt on top of the resin pour before it dries. This way the resin will not get any uv rays and we will have permanent color.
have not tested it yet.
here is a link that shows some colors.
in theory it should work
http://www.percellsigns.com/commercecgi/commerce.cgi?product=Smalt

[courtney2018]

I didn't read all of these comments. I've used Casting Resin before with dyes and powdered pigments. It's not something that you'd be able to pour into your groove and be done with it I don't think. Would definitely need to test it out first.

My experience with it is that it shrinks slightly. However, I've been pouring big batches of it. Maybe a small groove you wouldn't see any shrinkage.

Another option is to use laminated MOP or Abalone, but that would involve cutting it out and putting it in like a traditional inlay.

For under $25 you can get some Castin Resin and try it out on a groove the size you plan on using. There's all types of colored powders you can use from regular colors, metallics, pearls, and you can even use paint. I've used Testors hobby paint to color it and acrylic clothing paint. There's a huge variety of colors to choose from with that. There about $1 for each little bottle.

[drodda]

Here is what the Inlace ended up looking like. It worked out perfect for what I needed. No visible shrinkage but had to be careful with bubbles in the epoxy. The Inlace is the numbers and stars cut into the cherry boards.




7162

-D

[shoeshine]

wow that looks great. could you decribe your sanding/finishing. I can think of half a dozen uses for that right off the cuff.

[drodda]

I just sanded and finished it like it was just a plain piece of wood. The inlace sands like wood and then I stained and applied ocnversion varnish. YOu want to overfill the inlay and let dry. Then you sand it flush and then you just finish sand as if the inlay was not even there.


7163

This is a test board I did to see if I wanted to use another color. There are many to choose from. I decided on black in the end though.

-D

[ocelot]

I use resins daily. The inlace is nothing more than a resin with crushed stone. The polyester resin has minimal shrinkage and is not brittle at all after curing. It finishes like wood and gives a great shine and water resistance which would be important for a table top. The urethane resins have zero shrinkage, but will not shine as good. They set much faster also.
This is one of the uses I use it for...http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/DozerMite/zzzzzzz-1.jpg
I can give you more info if interested.

[bob_s]

JB
I would like to now what brand of resins you find work well. I would like to be able to customize the colors, if possible. How large, and small could the inlay be? What shape inlay do you think would work best, V carved with a 30 or 60 degree tip, or would it be necessary to use a straight bit to have less chance of the underlying wood forcing out the inlay with seasonal expansion and contraction.
thanks
Bob

[shoeshine]

Thanks Dave,

thats cool, think I'm gonna order me a test sample

[jseiler]

I did something like dave rodda's work with dark wood putty and clear coat. The only hit was that the surface bowed inward slightly, but it looked nice. Here's the link...there's a picture at the bottom of the thread.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/312/24086.html