Chronicles of a Shopbotter, HELP

[blownaway-ig@msn.com]

Well, I have to be honest with you, We have been looking very seriously at purchasing a Shopbot Machine, And we have done quite a bit of inquiry into the whole issue. However, the newest article posted on the Homepage has made us have some serious second thoughts. I am somewhat Computer literate in that I am the owner of Computerized Embroidery and Imprinted Graphics Shop. We do in house digitizing and editing for embroidery and Graphics Creation, editing for Digital images, 35mm/APS Photo and negative editing and transfers to CD Rom or disk and much more. However, after reading the article, I'm not sure if I have the schooling available, the time or for that matter the ability to learn and utilize some of the Software and programming issues that were listed. All along we have been told that this was not something that took a very in depth computer background get into or to use. However, based on the article and it's contents, it would seem that the opposite may be true. I realize that this is not a toy or a simple home tool you take out of the box, plug in and use, however,,,

Our uses would include, surface decorations, Signs, signs utilizing different media (airbrushing, 3D, etc), toys, lawn decorations, and furniture, we also custom build and design R/C car components, R/C aircraft components (chassis, bulkheads, wing spars, Foam gliders and airframes, etc), and such things. We use materials ranging from Plywood, solid wood, bals wood, fiberglass G-10 type, Carbon Fiber, Aluminum, Ti, Closed Cell foam, plastic, plexi, etc.

So if anyone who is an owner has the spare time, could you please let me know if it is really this computer intensive. We are currently looking into financing and the construction of a onsite shop building to house our current business as well as the possible purchase of a ShopBot. So before I get $10,000 over my head in Shopbot, I'd appreciate any information any one could provide. We would like to of course take full advantage of the possibilities that the ShopBot has to offer, but cannot afford alot of down and learn as you go time.

Thank You,

David Sanchez
Blown Away Imprinted Graphics
blownaway-ig@msn.com (mailto:blownaway-ig@msn.com)

[odysseywood@home.com]

David:
It sounds like you are letting some of the posts on the forum talk you out of a machine that could be a big asset to your business. For the items that you are looking to make you will need to use a cad program if don't already. There are a lot of different cad programs available. If you are not already using a cad program I would download several demos and work with them to find the one that you like the best. After drawing the item that you want to produce in your cad program you will save or export the file in .dxf format. The .dxf file can then be converted to a shopbot file from within the shopbot software, it takes about 5 or 6 key strokes to convert a file. If you want to control the cutting direction and sequence you will open the .dxf file in Vector which comes with your shopbot.

I started out with no previous training in cad or cnc machining. My background was in management. The first day after setting up my shopbot I cut out a raised letter sign and a servo tray for an RC glider.

I have found the shopbot and its software very straight forward. Yes it will be a little different from what you are doing now, but it is not rocket science.

Sam Harbold
Odyssey Wood Products
odysseywood@home.com (mailto:odysseywood@home.com)

[uniguard@pamlico.net]

Dear Dave:

Just as Sam said, some of the post make it seem as though you’ll need a couple of years of college training before you cut your first piece of wood. You are right that some software has major learning curves and certainly maybe out of the realm of the novice. You are also right that the Shopbot is not a toy or you can just read a simple set of instructions and you can build kitchen cabinets. There is a learning curve. But just as there are many posts that discuss the in-depth software there are just as many that suggests starting with a basic CAD program. Oh yea! It’ll still take some time how use the machine to make the items you want but it won’t be as long as you may think. Keep in mind that most of the folks that are talking about the intensive and complicated software along with using converters etc. have been using their machine for a couple of years. Using a Shopbot is like any other tool you may have. The more you use it the more proficient you become and the more uses you’ll find for it.

To reiterate Sam’s point, the Shopbot is a wonderful addition to a business like you have described. Do not be intimidated by the length of the learning curve but rather accept the fact that it will take a few weeks to hang of it however, the rewards will certainly be a more productive shop with higher quality products.

Ken Brisk

P.S. Dave, keep in mind that there are all sorts of support options that you’ll be able to seek help from once you have your machine up and running.

[birdsofplay]

Wow !
I certainly didnt intend to intimidate anyone.
One can certainly "get by" and even do lots of usefull stuff with an SB with minimal skills.

I guess, after having years of computer experience, that I've gotten used to "tech speak" and "went a little overboard".
If your main intent is to crank out parts and "elegance of program" is not a priority then certainly SB will work well in that mode as well.
It's simply a matter of what you're measuring.

My intention was to demo some possibilities not to scare anyone away. Appologies to all who "read" it that way.

To be sure ANY system will NOT be a TURN KEY.
Whatever your decide on will require an investment in time.

I've encountered lots of disillusioned folks who "came to the plate" thinking "push button -> get part"

You do have to be "into it" but it doesnt have to become a sacrement :-)

The more you do the better you'll get at it.
Sure there's a learning curve but so was Walking, Driving a car, or Balancing a Checkbook.

Come on in ... The water is warm :-)

[Ellen]

David; You are very astute to hone into the main problem with the Shopbot, that being the lack of a basic software package with proper step by step application instructions. As you can see by the forum the varied cad/cam software packages used by shopbotters is endless ,as is the techniques of different users. Another issue is the endless applications and projects which can be done with the Shopbot, it can be mind boggling. Some items produced are astounding, and simple for the Shopbot to do, it is just the designing and formulating tool paths that can be tricky. It sounds like your current business venture deals with the graphic world and your knowledge in design will be a great asset as you progress and learn just what you want the Shopbot to do. Do not get discouraged, you will be able to create what ever your imagination desires.
Ellen dba J.E.T Enterprises

[Gerald D]

Let us look at this from another angle . . . .

(This is not a reply to David Sanchez in particular, but a general observation on a recurring theme)

When you see printers (Lexmark, Hewlett Packard, Epsom, etc.) being demonstrated at computer exhibitions, you will see a wide variety of graphics and pictures being produced. You could see glossy posters, engineering drawing prints, simple letters/faxes, "Hallmark"-type greeting cards, barcodes on sticky labels, etc.

Do you expect to be able to buy a Lexmark (as an example) printer, take it home, and start producing barcode labels? If you have a problem with your labels, do you expect Lexmark to help you? If you only want to produce letters, would you expect Lexmark to advise you on which word processor package to purchase?

Would you believe that some people buy the Lexmark printer at the show, and when they get home, they start realising that they have never typed a letter before. What to do now? . . . . call Lexmark and tell them they have a problem with their product!

Well, ShopBot is simply another form of a "Lexmark". Printers are "pen(cartridge)-pushers" while ShopBot can push much bigger things!

Whereas Lexmark have their defined speciality area, so does ShopBot. However, Shopbot does try very hard to help (this discussion board is an example), and is much more personalised than what you would expect from Lexmark. But please don't start bashing ShopBot for not being able to teach everyone how to become signmakers, woodworkers, boatbuilders, artists, guitarmakers, . . . . . etc.

So, you can see that I disagree with Ellen's analysis above; "the main problem with the ShopBot". In my view the main problem is the expectations of some people.

[altonjohnson@shreve.net]

To make a point. Shopbot sells cnc routers.
So do the big boys(no names mentioned).
The big boys offer OPTIONAL Software $$$$$.
Shopbot offers support through every means possible. This forum for example.
The best help is from the users. Ron Varela
is a prime example of outgoing user support.
One thing nice about ShopBot is nearly all cad/
graphic software is compatible with SB through
its free converters. Yes free, anyone can download
it from the download page. Let's name a few
programs compatible with the dxf,tif,& g-code converters.

Paint Shop Pro
Autocad
Turbocad
CorelDraw
CorelPhotoPaint
Easy Cad
Vector Cam
Adobe Photo Deluxe
Casmate
Enroute
SignLab
Engravelab
ModelMill***
Rhino 3d
Millwizzard

and many other cad/graphics programs.

If using converters is not time efficient.
Buy something with Shopbot drivers built-in.
I.e. ProfileLab,Signlab,EngraveLab,VectorCam
and I think ModelMill has a driver.

The thing is SB is very user friendly, yet it
takes a little learning. Very Little. But it
is flexible enough to be complex and use 3D.
Unless you can afford Model Mill. Which is simple.
I've used it and it is great.

I am now accepting donations for the "Alton to
own ModelMill Fund". All Donations are greatly
appreciated...hehe

Shopbot is Easy.

Alton "SB owner..4 years"
altonjohnson@shreve.net (mailto:altonjohnson@shreve.net)

[pauln]

Alton:

Just an FYI.....
I own and use ModelMill, it DOES NOT output SB code files, it outputs g-code. There is a "driver" ( or better stated config file ) that is setup to control the g-code to match, that needed for the SB g-code convertion program.

If you want more info, we can do it offline.

Contact me at: pauln@ncc4u.com (mailto:pauln@ncc4u.com)

Paul

[birdsofplay]

Here Here !!!

I whole heartedly AGREE !!!

The "Problem" is NOT with ShopBot.

The fact the SB WORKS WELL with almost ANY
CAD is a major PLUS or "Feature" !!!
NOT A PROBLEM !

Paul , Alton and Gerald are RIGHT ON !!!

[Gerald D]

To answer the original dilemna posed by David Sanchez when he started this thread;

David, and his company (surely not a one-man business?), seem to have a very wide exposure to computers, graphics, materials and precision work (model kits etc.). He obviously knows the diffences and limitations of software versus hardware. His computerised embroidery machinery cleary operates with discrete colored threads going from point to point - vectors!

Quite frankly, I cannot think of a more ideal candidate for a ShopBot!

But, on the question whether he has the time for a learning curve, only he can decide this. However, it should be no worse than for any other of his computer HARDWARE that he already uses.

[ssanda@nvbell.com]

As someone else who is evaluating the learning curve with the Shopbot, I too feel that the software is the main "problem" with the machine.

It sounds like the machine itself is great and highly capable of doing what it is told to do.

The problem is figuring out how to match your software choices with the router output you desire in the most efficient manner. Yes, some routers come with software, but what if that software sucks or doesn't do what you want to do?

I think the software problem is one of the great strengths of the ShopBot- it provides the flexibility to find the right combination to profitably cut out boat parts or signs or whatever.

It's great there are so may users that so freely share their experiences to help solve everyones individual "problem".