Any downside??

[tradition_wood]

We are currently looking into making a CNC purchase.
Now I know everyone loves their machine when they get it but soon find things that they don't like or don't work well. So I am asking if there is something that you don't like about your machine or something that you would change.

Thanks for the help

[dubliner]

I know this sounds like a cliche, but even the big machines have their downsides - or more appropriately "limitations" and you learn to work with whatever they are, but the thing that should convince you is by going to other machine sites & look for their forums, if there is one. I spent a year & drove everyone on this board crazy asking questions all I ever got was great info & encouragement, and I am really impressed with my machine & have made a bunch of friends & mentors in the process. If I could more directly answer any questions you have dont hesitate to email me.

[dray]

For me personally.
I own a prs alpha and there is No downside to my machinery that I have found yet.

[henrik_o]

Took delivery of a PRS Alpha a month ago and so far everything is going really well.

I think the key to a good cnc purchase is, like with any major purchase, to take your time and make sure you really understand what you're getting. There are many configurations of 'bots available, and they have their limitations; table sizes, z travel, spindle v. router, vacuum or not, etc etc etc.

Also, the shopbot places you in the driver's seat and that means it won't work any better than you make it work. We got ours a month ago, and just now it's being phased into serious production. It took that time for us, not because of the machine, but because of me. I am the bottleneck.

There's another side of this as well, and that's how going towards cnc means the person who does the design and cam really becomes the bottleneck in your shop. Before, I could do preliminary design and then start to hand over things to my craftsmen, everything did not need to be perfectly thought out or cutlisted, we could figure some of it out as we went along. While that's still possible, it is far from as appealing now with the cnc.

As such, if you are the one who designs and projects your work, do realize that moving towards cnc may put a much higher degree of responsibility on you for design etc.

I like this change and challenge, I welcome it, but it may not be for everyone. It is a rather different way of doing work compared to before.

I took a look at your site (beautiful work!) and you seem to be doing lots of things we do at our shop as well. Just understand that the kind of versatile projects you and I and so many here are doing are a bit different than if someone gets a cnc to do just one type of machining all day long. The machine is supremely versatile, but how versatile are we with CAD and CAM?

Let's put it this way: I've had my $25,000 shopbot for a month. Last week a company that has owned a 5-axis $500,000 monster for several years decided to outsource parts to me. Their machine is vastly superior to mine. Their operator is not (plausibly). And I'm all new to this!

The difference? I am interested in this, and here's this magnificent forum to help you learn and develop. Some things can be bought for money, for those things that can't there's always the talkshopbot forums

[elcruisr]

Geoff,
the biggest key to putting together a successful CNC operation is to carefully define just what it is you want your machine to do, at what volume and with what quality. It isn't just about the machine but is a combination of machine, spindle, tooling, software and knowledge on the operator / programmer end. The more you educate yourself on these things the easier it will be to have a less painful entry into the CNC world.

Our 'bot started as a PRT and has been through several upgrades and is waiting for me to install some new, faster drives at this moment. For what we do, which is cut furniture parts for us and a large number of contract parts, it has been an excellent choice. I routinely go up against "big iron" for certain types of contracts and land jobs with happy customers. Shopbots do have some limits though, all equipment does. They are not the most rigid machines or insanely accurate as some big dollar machines. But in my world I don't need .003 absolute accuracy or 2 tons of rigidity. I don't need to drill 5,000 5mm holes a day! I also do not need a factory trained tech to repair my machine. A huge plus!!!

The support system for any purchase is also very important. You've obviously found this place which can be a great resource. Make sure that when looking at machines you look at their support system as well.

Finally look at the software and make sure you can do what you need to do easily and quickly. There will always be a learning curve but you don't need MasterCAM to cut cabinet boxes.

Good luck in your search!

[rcnewcomb]

>is something that you don't like

When I lean my belly against the rails I get a grease mark on my shirt.

[brian_h]

Ditto Randall's comments. I've recked 4-5 shirts before training myself not to lean over the sides. I'm always reminding others not to do the same.

[hines]

The only "issue" I had was figuring out what type of hold-down I wanted to use. Shopbots vacuum, vac-clamp, fein vacs, nails, screws, t-tracks, hand clamps, or ?. I 3rd the grease-on-the-shirt problem, makes my wife go nuts.

[richards]

I agree with Eric. What I expected before I bought the PRT-Alpha and what I expect now are two different things. I thought that I wanted speed - lots of speed, but now I want to get the best efficiency out of the tool. The Shopbot can cut too fast for my vacuum system. The Shopbot can cut too fast for the flexible cutter. (Cutters do bend and flex when spinning at high speeds and being forced to plow through fairly dense material.) The Shopbot can cut too fast for its gantry. (My 60 X 120 machine has a wide gantry that will flex a little, just like any metal gantry on any machine.)

But, the important point for me is that, so far, I've been able to cut everything that I've wanted to cut on the Shopbot, including wood, plastic and aluminum - but you won't find me cutting 1/2-inch thick aluminum unless my vertical mill is napping. But, I've had to experiment a little and tweak speeds and depths a little until the machine 'sings'. I've had to do the same thing for my Delta Unisaw and my shaper and my router table and my lathe. Anyway, you get the idea. A Shopbot is a wonderful tool whose value is much higher than its price. But, a tool needs to be mastered and if you're a craftsman, you will be the master of your tools.

[foamcarver]

Shopbot has a way so you don't get grease on your shirts- they hand out aprons with the grease stain on them already. (when you attend a camp) We've been doing some great things with our bot lately- we're at the end of our first ever 24ft by 16ft 3d sign. Like Henrik said "the shopbot places you in the driver's seat and that means it won't work any better than you make it work" We've come across a few problems nothing major, but we get right on the forum and tell everyone whats going on and we usually have an answer within 30 minutes. The shopbot community is a great place to be.

Nikki

[billp]

White lithium grease. Dries clear, and dry (.....)NO "rack tracks".....
Of course you can still glob on the axle butter so you'll be fashionably attired at Shopbot events...

[handh]

Bill,
What brand of grease are you using.

[tradition_wood]

Thanks for the comments.
Mostly I foresee us cutting cabinet boxes, plus a few other jobs that we currently use our overarm router for but this would save cutting parts then handling them again on the router. Of course once we get started I am sure we will do much more.
This type of group would certainly make a huge impact on our decision.

[andyb]

I took Bill's advice at the Atlanta camp 2 years ago. No grease marks for me. I purchased a brand called White Lightin'. I think I got it at Home Depot.

The biggest problem for me is retaining all the great info you get on the forum. I have the search button on speed dial. If you have a question it's probably been asked before. But don’t be afraid to ask again.

Andy B.

[billp]

Jeff,
Andy is right on the money. I go to the Depot and get a spray can of the stuff, and then just squirt some onto a toothbrush and "scrub" the rack and pinion gear with a coat of the stuff at the end of a workday. This lets it dry completely overnight and when I start to cut there is NO glop, accumulated puddles, or wads of sawdust sticking to anything...

[handh]

Thanks Andy and Bill, I'm going to pick some up tonight.

[Gary Campbell]

Geoff..
I looked at your website and it looks like we may do a lot of similar things. Nice work, by the way. The only thing I can think of as a downside, would be the learning curve on the terminology and the software. If you have a machine on order, get the software and the training videos and PLAY! On the upside, we have found that we are able to cut most anything we can imagine.(and draw) We have taken on some very profitable jobs that I wouldn't have even bid prior to owning the Bot. It has increased our accuracy, jigbuilding, radius cutting and repeatability to a level higher than I could imagine before using the tool. I also don't think we have scratched the surface of the machines capability.
Gary

[gene]

Geoff
The only downside i have with the bot is the part you see if you fall on the floor and look up! It does everything i tell it to , i just wish it could cook lunch . Then it would be perfect!!!!

[ckurak]

Bill,

Just to follow up on the lithium grease, let's see if I understand this correctly.

Step 1: Remove all existing black grease from racks and pinions. (What remover works best?)
Step 2: Spray on lithium grease, using toothbrush to ensure complete coverage. (Or, only spray onto the toothbrush, then apply.)
Step 3: Let dry overnight.

Charles

[billp]

Charles I think I used mineral spirits (also with a toothbrush to get into all of the crevices on the rack/gears).
Then I applied the lithium to the toothbrush and applied it to everything. The spray coming directly from the can was too wide a pattern to use it directly on the machine, and I was wiping off more over spray of the grease than I was actually getting into the "valleys".And if I tried to use the long plastic straw they gave with the grease it projected the grease too thickly...
After that I let it dry overnight, and then ran the machine the following day.
I would reapply the grease every few months, just as a precaution..

[olecrafty]

Guys,
Don't use your wifes toothbrush or you will spend the nite on the couch.

[knedert]

The couch would be too good... Make 'm sleep on the 'Bot table! ha ha

[johnm]

Hey -

She fluffs the pillows, fresh kibble.... not so bad... Um, love you, hun!

John