If you were starting over

[mikejohn]

If you guys had a SB arriving in 6 weeks, how would you spend your time preparing yourself?
AutoCAD (and other software) I use every day.
I have never used (or even seen) a CNC set up.

[bjwat@comcast.net]

Buy bits, pink foam, your spoilboard material, glue and plenty of coffee.


Make sure that your electrical is ready to go and that you have enough light above the Bot.

Also, make sure that you leave at least 24" on each side of the assembled frame after it is squared up.

-Brady

[gerald_d]

Download (http://www.shopbottools.com/download.htm) the main SB software (sb233sx.exe) and run it on your PC. Then you have the operating console and can start "virtual" cutting. The preview screen will tell you if the tool moved as expected.

Build your table.

Select your router and get a couple of bits.

In your case, because you are an AutoCAD bloke, make simple drawings in dxf format and feed it to your "virtual" console. See if you can get your dxf's understood by the SB software.

Download and print out the User's Manual so that you have some bed time reading.


Oh, and get some inch-sized spanners (wrenches)

[papadaveinwy]

Mike, Gerald forgot one thing, read a couple books on self control and patience. After all their is a learning curv. at least you don't have to spend hours upon hours upon hours learning vector just to use it for a frizzzzzzbie. David in Wyoming.

[gerald_d]

David, if I could legally get those Vector "frizzzzzzbies" for free, I would make a fortune re-selling them to anybody who already knows CAD and can produce a dxf file. My marketing and support would take an entirely different approach though. The main requirement is that the buyer is already proficient in a CAD program - any CAD program, as long as it can produce dxf's. But, the Vector vendor forbids the re-selling of their program.

Yes, patience and self-control are essential. ShopBot does not give you a "one box solution". (In fact, we received 7 seperate boxes)

[mikejohn]

Gentlemen, if you want to talk about patience and self control, then you need to have a joined me at a meeting I had this morning with government officials here in Thailand.
The thought of returning to wood, and having something being created in my hands (via the SB) is the only thing keeping me going!
Thanks for the advice, I will follow your steps.
Um! What is the pink foam for?
Wrenches? who said we were a people seperated by a common language?
Mike

[papadaveinwy]

Gerald' not trying to totaly knock Vector but I have used AutoCad for years,long befor I got my bot 3 years ago I use to do digital controls for smarthomes and office buildings Used AutoCad for the drawings had no proublems with that. It's just that the guys at vector approched the design of the software with the insite of a machineist (from their perspective). not all of us are into thinking like that. so the program is hard for many a Botter that is why so many use simple programs like tubo cad etc.I know that it is a great program once you learn it. just I didn't have the time and could not re-adjust my thinking fast enough.I have played with the program over the years and have become fairly good with it but for most of my design work Ve LXI Pro and corel draw does fine and a lot faster I can out put a sign design into a dxf in a matter of min.then let the shopbot converter do the rest.David in Wyoming

[gerald_d]

David, we don´t want to go too far off this thread, and repeat what has been said over and over again, but I am with you 98% of the way! There is not a snowball´s hope that I will design in Vector, I am (and was) way too experienced in AutoCAD to attempt that.

My only point of difference with your post is where you say "then let the shopbot (dxf) converter do the rest". For our work, the SB dxf converter is not enough (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/31/1206.html?1036060410), and that is where we use Vector. Can I suggest that we discus the use of Vector (or any other CAM program, like Parts Wizard for that matter) over in the thread that I linked to? I reckon that we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we dump the "freebie" CAM programs that were supplied with the SB.

[mikejohn]

Once again, thanks for the interest.
As far as pirate software is concerned, you can certainly by everything for about$3, in a mall 7 stories high!
However, it's one thing buying it and using it in Thailand, quite another thing taking it through customs. And I understand a Bangkok jail 'aint a nice place. I have used AutoCad, amongst others, for may years, so I am pretty experienced, but I would guess many of the more sofisticated features are probably unnecessary for the SB. From what I'm reading here and in the user manual (you see, I do take your advice!) technique for CNC files seems equally as important as the software.
As I seem to be taking from this group, and not giving (I know as much about the shopbot as I do about Nepalese goat herding), what I can give is input on Cad, and particularly AutoCad if it is needed. As Graham says, another thread though.
And Gerald, it was actually Fishhoek!
I am still intrigued what the pink foam is for!
And, how do you do those smiley faces?
Mike

[mikejohn]

Can I change the preview 'cut' speed?

[rookie432]

Mike,

Pink foam is that insulation board that they usually put up on your house before the siding goes up. You can find it at any lumber yard and comes in 4x8x1" and .5" sheets for about $6-$8. The great thing about it is of course the price and the fact that you can test cut files until the cows come home without wearing out that new $30 spiral upcut bit you may have just bought or inadvertantly finding out after the fact that you forgot a step in your programming and that bit just ruined a $75 piece of mahogony. I always pre cut a test in pink foam just to see how it well my program will cut or if I want to make any changes I usually write all my notes on the back of the foam after I'm done for reference.

alas! The beauty of pink foam.


Bill

[gerald_d]

Hi Mike, if you have gotten things to "preview" stage, you have done enough software homework already! No, I don't know how to slow it down, because we havn't bothered with previews and foam cuts for two years. We trust AutoCAD for the CAD, and Vector for the CAM, implicitly.

For a smiley, type the colon and immediately afterwards a RH bracket,
like this----> : )
but, don't put a space in between the 2 characters.
A sad face is colon and left bracket.

A proud face is colon and capital O.


For the curious reference to Fish Hoek (that is the name of my home village of about 20 000 people), Mike's brothers actually lived here - a small world!!!!

[aring]

Mike

To change the preview screen, Type VP and change the Delay between segs, a value of 0 is default, changing it to 1 really slows it down, I keep mine on .25,

You can also change to 0,0 axis to view your entire cutting path if you set your x,y axis in the center of the part you are cutting.

Andy Ring

[mikejohn]

Thanks Andy, it works great.
Today, I received my ShopBot video CD. (Well done ShopBot).
Now I'm really keen!
Another question I'm afraid, can I cut small pieces from thin wood (1/8th to 3/8th) say 3 inches x 1/2 inch? I'm happy to use tags, and remove these after

[papadaveinwy]

Ya Mike just set your depth of cut to -.125 for 1/8" and -.375 for 3/8" then cut away just remember to set your cutting offset to 1/2 the the size of your cutter (set to cut outside) simple way to do this is draw the design say 1/8" larger for a 1/4" cutter this way the center of the cutter will be 1/8" to the outside thus making the cut at the size you want. David in Wyoming

[mikejohn]

If there were a number of parts to cut, would you cut each board (probably no bigger than 2 feet by 1 foot at that thickness) one at a time, or would you sandwhich a number of sheets together?

[pcampbell86@charter.net]

Hi people
for those of you interested i have been building my shopbot for the past week..taking it slow to get it right on..i have a little mech know how and made my own steel table...one thing i did not like was the x and y stops i dont know why shopbot do it the way they do and also why they expect you to drill your own holes in the rails provided..seems like an after thought..i am going to make my own design using rubber stops....

i will take your advice and do some cuts in foam first...
the whole thing that seems to me to be the biggest hurdle with CNC is holding parts in place especially small parts..i have looked at several options but it seems to me that vacum is the way to go..any suggestions for cheap vacum systems...

i love the shopbot blue very nice job on that smart looking machine..i think building it yourself is really invaluable as you know every nut and bolt by the time you are finished giving one a much better understanding of what CNC is all about..as you can see i am very excited about this machine and see it as a way to finally have a real! home based business..that can support my family...now all i have to do is get a colour laser printer for the marketing side of things phew cant forget you have to sell what you make


i better go for now before i talk my head off

PS: Mike i would suggest reading as much about router bits as you can and what cuts what. i scoured the net for info on this and find it very! important to understand this part of it all...everybody has somthing differant to say about it so you have to sift through it all to find what you yourself need


Happy botter


Paul

[jaum@adelphia.net]

Outland86,

Did you mean color lazer printer, or just a printer that produces great high resolution prints? A true color lazer printer is or was extremely pricy the last time I checked, but if you really want great prints at a reasonable price look at the Lexmark Z65. Relativly cheap but does a great job. I've also heard that Epson produces an equiv product but the person who told me about it said it was an ink hog. All of the ink cart. are expensive but the Z65 ink usage seems reasonable to me.

[pcampbell86@charter.net]

Jumbaugh

Im meant colour Laser
thats how it is said in NEW Zealand Speak


they have come down a great deal in price over the past couple years and for the amount of handouts i want to do an inkjet would be way over the top for ink..the laser can do full photo quality letter size for about 10 cents a page if you add up all those ink jet cartriges you can imagine the cost...perhaps some of us shopbotters could all put in and buy a lazzer printer, email me artwork i could do the printing and mail out the brochures etc to you guys at a fraction of the cost of printing elsewhere a sort of shopbot marketing coop
what do you think?
i hear that xerox will supply a printer free if you print so much per month..think about this if you wanted to promote say a house sign through schools churches etc then how many brochures would you need for all those kids to take home..
and if you want to change the brochure for differant promotions then it would be easy no having to go back to the expensive print company..
and local stores charge like a dollar a page for colour lazer printing ..i have looked into this alot and lazer seems to be the way to go...oops!
i am off topic sorry People

[gerald_d]

" can I cut small pieces from thin wood (1/8th to 3/8th) say 3 inches x 1/2 inch? I'm happy to use tags, and remove these after - Of course you can cut them, but would it be economical? If you are cutting tiny rectangles, then a 1/4" routing bit is not the right tool for the job.

" If there were a number of parts to cut, would you cut each board (probably no bigger than 2 feet by 1 foot at that thickness) one at a time, or would you sandwhich a number of sheets together? We don't sandwich - but then again, we use much bigger boards. Use the biggest boards possible - dont cut out blanks first.

[papadaveinwy]

Gerald I think you may have misunderstood Mike John, what I think he is wanting to know is can he stack mutiple sheets to cut more blanks per cut,Also I used 1/4" as an example I would cut with an 1/8" spiral down bit and offset to the outside by .0625 but as for stacking mutiple sheets I guess you could use heavy duty cloth 2 sided tape or hot glue but man i wouldn't want one to come loose. David in Wyoming

[mikejohn]

Gerald, I think I over-simplified my objective.
I agree absolutely with what I have read throughout this forum, why use the SB when other tools can do it easier, or quicker. I don't want to cut rectangles, but more intricate shapes. I am not looking for arcs under 3mm in diameter, so I hope I am not looking for the impossible. I will be cutting a lot from 3mm hardwood. My reason for suggesting small board sizes is, I know no way of producing large hardwood boards at such thin thickness. There again, there's a lot I don't know!
I was hoping this forum would attract more questions from other wannabee's, because at the moment I'm hogging everything.
It is obvious that there is more to using the SB than knowing how the machine works. Material handling seems a big factor, and you experienced guys seem to have overcome a lot of the problems, hence my continuing questions.
One more (of many still to come).
Is there a web site that clearly explains all bit types?
Stacking or sandwiching seems to create more problems than it would solve. As I am not looking for huge production runs, maybe I need to stick to single sheets.
Do you ever use jigs to hold down mre than one board at a time, side by side?
Mike

[mikejohn]

Paul, just a thought.
Using thin wood material, make a small 'sales brochure'to show what can be done, say 3" x 4". This might attract more attention than the normal colour brochure. You could include a B/W sheet explaning prices etc.
Mike

[mikejohn]

I can draw simple .dxf files, and get them to work in the preview software.
Can I make the preview software replicate a cutting speed (say 25mm/sec)
I took Andys advice, and each segment appears every 1/4 second, but the whole line appears at once.
Is it possible to see the 'cut' in real time speed in the preview?
Mike

[kaaboom_99]

Hi Mike, welcome to the family. Just a quick reply to a question asked re: router bits. Here is a site I found very useful. Just click on the link. Have a good day.

http://www.onsrud.com/rBitSearch.asp

[billp]

Mike/Perry, Just a note about the selection and use of router bits. We currently have scheduled a representative from Onsrud to come and speak to us at the upcoming Shopbot Jamboree in May. It should be the ideal situation for all of us to ask specific questions regarding which bits to use in different materials with our 'Bots......Bill P.

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Mike,

The new ShopBot "WinDoze" edition has a 3D previewer that is real nice. If you write to Ted Hall, ted@shopbottools.com (mailto:ted@shopbottools.com) and ask to be put on the "Beta list", he might send you the link.

Sometimes when I have real small parts to hold, I glue them to something, cut the part, then make the glue release.

Ron

[papadaveinwy]

Mike here is a website that has a good deal of information on bits and other cnc stuff http://www.techno-isel.com I use some of there bits they will send you a ton of catalogs ie: motion control- bits- their techno book of cad-cam-cnc this book shows what other people are doing with cnc routers mills etc. David in Wyoming

[rkjohnson@icehouse.net]

I've looking to buy a SB. I have the same question about cutting small parts.1"x1/2" 3/4" thick. About 30-40 per sheet. Will the parts just sit there or willey be kcked off the table by the router bit?

Ron

[rkjohnson@icehouse.net]

By the way...I live in Spokane, Wa. Any SB machines in the area I could see run?
Thanks

[garbob]

I have been cutting some very small items. I have successfully been using double sided tape from InterTape. Their model #591 is easy to peel, very sticky and easy to remove. I've tried every kind of tape and this is by far the best.

If only my cutting software had a neat tab function like ArtCam Insignia.

[john]

Gary-
Can't you upgrade to the new software that SB is using now? It has the tabbing feature in it.
-John

[cmrtom]

AutoCad does a great job for most projects...... I make my drawings in .dwg and then export them as a .dxf file which the ShopBot software converts in a couple of seconds....... works perfectly everytime. I use a lot of polylines which keeps the tool running in the material as each time a line ends....... the bot picks up the tool. I also us the basic colors on AutoCad....red is 1, yellow is 2 etc...... when you draw and us a color you can specify the depth for that color. It works great and the folks at ShopBot are alway there with tech advice and product support.

Good Luck

[gerald_d]

Thomas, have you discovered the Draw -> Boundary command yet? (ACAD LT2000 has it) This draws the boundary of a "hatch" region as a polyline. If we take an example where you have drawn a rectangle and fillet radiused the 4 corners, draw>boundary uses a single click inside the diagram to define the whole outline (8 line segments) as a single closed polyline.

The tool offset is then another single instruction away (not 8).

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

I just tried that in LT 97, it works. It also lets you know if there are any broken lines. Finding them is another story

[gerald_d]

Sheldon, to find the broken connections, draw a line across your pattern, roughly cutting it in two equal amounts of connections. Then do boundaries of the half areas and you will see in which half the break is. Thus you can use a random dividing line for a process of elimination. A curious thing is that Acad will only find the boundary if the whole boundary is visible on your display - don't automatically assume that you have a broken boundary. (Vector fixes broken boundaries like a dream
)

Oh, if you look at the properties of a boundary, my LT shows its "elevation" which is actually the z-height. Type in a new elevation value and the whole boundary moves to a new z-value in 3D space.

PS. it looks like this Forum is suddenly back up to full speed again. Thanks Nancy!