How about a Shopbot Channel

[larry_r]

I recently found this site http://www.woodworkingchannel.com/ on the Vectric forum. Well, I thought this would be a great idea for the Shopbot, video taping the Jamboree and the many camps that take place every year. I know that a wealth of information is shared with those that attend. Unfortunately, none of us can attend all of these events.

If Shopbot would have a download section on their site that would store all these many gems of wisdom, I am certain that everyone would benefit.

What started me thinking of this is the upcoming camp in Austin that Wayne Locke is hosting. He is planning on doing a presentation on the indexer. I have an Indexer and would really like to learn more about what others are doing with their Indexers, but I can not go. Same goes with the new 4G control box.

I, like many others, have purchased a Shopbot partially do to the forum and its great wealth of information from the many contributors who give of there time and knowledge to help others. I think video presentations could do what the forum does and strengthen their current customer base and certainly add to it.

Just my thoughts.

Larry

[gene]

Hi
I think thats a great idea, I do not have a indexer but if i see others doing exceptional work and i could profit from the addition of one then i would be alot more willing to purchase one. The same with the air drill attachment. Anything to improve efficiency in the way i work.

[billp]

Larry,
This topic comes up just about every year, and each year we ask the same question; WHO will do the video?
It HAS been attempted before but since each Camp/Jamboree are unique, and so are the facilities, schedules, (and hosts) it makes it pretty hard to standardize any sort of recording process.
I think we all agree that videos can be very helpful, but with 2-3 concurrent sessions going on at the same time at some events there really isn't any way I know of for us to do this easily. And as anyone who has ever been to a Camp knows, these events are pretty "flexible" depending on who shows up that day.
If anyone attending a Camp/Jamboree has the equipment,time, and skills to do so we'd welcome the help.....

[myxpykalix]

As someone who has been in the television and movie business for years and We have done many corporate/training videos which the format would be most like.
I think the benefit for the users and shopbot are both there. If i could see a demonstration on, for example, the shopbot probe and see the ease of use and end results I might be persuaded to purchase one (if i didn't already own one).
You wouldn't necessarily need to go to a camp but could do something in house and add the users "testimonials" from the camp.
You are basically talking about a marketing tool.
This could be done to also show off processes that might make you want to buy a shopbot so you can do..."that". There are a million things that guys do with their bots that i'd love to see but i can't afford to travel the country just to see.

Here is the reality of the production process. To do anything right in a camp setup you would need at least a 2 camera setup. Same with a controlled inhouse setup.
Then after taping hours and hours of footage it needs to be edited to a concise production complete with good graphics.
Here is the bottom line, to do it, and do it right, it would cost several thousand dollars. I absolutely believe shopbot would benefit from a marketing standpoint and the users would benefit. But with anything like this lots of premarketing would need to be done to see if they could recoup some of their cost by selling this to owners and such. Would shopbot be willing to do something like this...well thats for others to say.
I recall someone making a point on this subject before saying if a video was available that might curtail some from even attending. In my marketing experience we have found it to be the opposite. Lets also face it, these camps are regional events. I'm on the east coast, i wouldn't consider going to a camp in montana but i'd love to see what other guys are doing out there for income.
Thats a few points on the subject, if there is any interest from the right people some marketing could be put together, if interested.
Something to chew on..........

[Brady Watson]

The idea of video taping the Jamboree & Camps has been around for a long time. Several of us have talked about it and how it would be a great idea...however, as jack points out, it is a LOT of work and you need multiple cameras & lighting rigs, multiple camera operators and then a very large time block to edit it for content and continuity. It would be a tremendous undertaking and the bottom line would be that each video would most likely cost several hundred dollars, and offer little in terms of actual learning. While all will agree that it would be a great thing, it most likely is never going to happen. It's probably cheaper, more enjoyable and easier to travel to a camp, than it is to buy & watch a video.

I'm putting on my CNCVideos.com hat now...I'm sure many of you have watched my PartWizard training video that is distributed with every new ShopBot. It was a considerable undertaking to produce with all of the different factors involved. Producing a training video was not a new concept by any means when I produced it, but the need was, and still is there. There's a whole lot more to it than owning a camcorder...believe me!

As many of you may know, I wear many hats...producing training videos is just one of them...and it sure does take a lot of energy, planning and time. When I am not training, I am using CNC equipment & software to make a living and that gets in the way of being able to pump out and complete all of the releases I currently have brewing...At the moment, I am working on an ArtCAM Pro training video geared towards professionals so that they can get up to speed & making money quickly to recoup their investment. I also have a vacuum hold down video in the works as well as a few other videos geared towards people with CNC routers, and how they can use them in new ways to make more money. As with anything else, I believe that customers should get what they pay for when it comes to training of any kind. So while videos are not 'Walmart' priced, they are a tremendous value and cheaper than live training...plus you get to watch them over and over again!

I don't want to hijack this thread mixed with both personal & business stuff, so if you have questions, comments or suggestions about what I have written here, please contact me off list.

-B

[larry_r]

Bill;

Who would video tape? Well to build on Jack’s input, I think the solution would be to hire a video expert from each local area. Who would pay for this? Shopbot and/or vendors would.

As Jack stated, Shopbot would be the primary benefactor for any option or new product like the new PRS model coming out. Certainly an in house video session at Shopbot for a new product and accessories would give the control that you ask for. However, the creativity of the many talented Shopbotters would not be captured.

Perhaps the best solution would be tapping in to the vendors for picking up the tab for the video. If I was a vendor putting on a demonstration at a camp, I have already spent a $1,000 or two in expenses to do so. This would be for 20 to 30 potential customers. If you told me for a couple thousand dollars more, I could reach the entire Shopbot community; I could not right a check fast enough. Of course, the deal is my demonstration would be shown along with the rest of the camp.

Ok, let us say that no vendor wants to pay for a whole video session. Let us take a page from what the above mentioned woodworking channel does, commercials. Every 5 minutes or so inject a 10 second spot for Onsrud router bits, Artcam software etc. I am certain that they would be very interested in such a concept.

Having attending last years fantastic Jamboree, I was frustrated at times when I would have liked to have attended two concurrent events. Video would have eliminated that. Even after attending the Jamboree, there are times that I would not mind reviewing some of the demonstration again.

One other possibility is a pay per view type setup that could be linked to Projectwizard. However, this could open the door to other ideas from Shopbotters. I know when it comes time to change the bearings in my PC router a video session would be something I would pay for. I am sure there is someone out there in the Shopbot community that would put together such a session. The fee could be split between Shopbot and the provider.

Bill, I understand that the logistics at times would not make video taping practical. However, I am sure some video would be better than none.

Keep in mind that once a video is produced and aired, it will keep on giving. Not only will current Shopbotters gain but so will futures ones, and so will Shopbot and the vendors.

Larry

[Brady Watson]

Larry,
There's no doubt that taping a camp would be a noble undertaking. I'm just trying to figure out, aside from maybe the show & tell part, what real value this would be to viewers. SB Camps are pretty down home, informal and low key. It's about the people really, and not a sales platform. If you have ever attended a camp, you'll quickly agree that it's really about sharing and interfacing with the people there...making new contacts and other things that cannot be emulated any other way. Many times the vendors that attend the camp are local, have small budgets, and show up to let people know they are in the area to build local business relationships, and offer practical advice where applicable. There is little selling of product, if any, at the camps. ShopBot is very generous in hosting these camps for the benefit of the community. They should be commended for not allowing it to become a sales platform.

Whether ShopBot or their vendors would be willing to spend the kind of money it would take to produce even a marginal quality video is uncertain. More importantly, WHO is going to schedule the 'video expert' in each area? Somebody has to do this...and with the number of camps and shows on the schedule, it would be a fulltime job. Aside from these challenges and uncertainties, the real question still remains to be answered, of what benefit or value would taping these sessions be to the average SB owner? There are many elements to camps and jamborees that cannot be captured on film...and not every attendee wants to be on film.

Things to think about...

-B

[billp]

Larry,
There seems to be two different issues here; Camps, and "how to" videos.
The purpose of the Camps has never been "sales". In fact we've tried to minimize the commercial aspect over the last 6 years. Camps are intended to be a place where Shopbotters get together and trade information, meet one another, and get leads on some of the latest developments. This is why the Camps are not run by any "marketing" people. If they were to become "infomercials" they wouldn't be the same. In fact I think "standardizing" all of the Camps would be a step backwards. In the majority of cases any outside vendors are there because of their relationship with Shopbot or the host of that specific Camp. And as most Campers will probably agree, even then we try to keep any on site sales to an absolute minimum.
While we try to include as many options as possible in our presentations, a "sponsored" Camp
isn't the direction we're hoping to head towards.
I'm sure many of the 'Botters who have attended Camps in more than one location (and there are a number of 'Botters who have been to 5 or 6 different Camps as well as every Jamboree)might agree that each one benefits from being different.
One of the most unique features of our Camps (other than the fact that NO other company has been willing to provide such events), is the fact that a newcomer can attend one, and not feel like they are under any obligation or pressure to buy a Shopbot.
"However, the creativity of the many talented Shopbotters would not be captured." I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point. However that's WHY we run the Camps, to let people show off some of that creativity. If we started out the year with a "canned" video, we'd have to revise it after each succeeding Camp since we get so many new ideas and projects from each location.Consider how many changes go on throughout a single year with the Shopbot product line in itself....
I also think that many people wouldn't find it nearly as interesting to sit in a shop and watch videos when they could could do that in the comfort of their own living room... If there IS that much of a demand for these instructional videos I think the companies themselves should produce them, but I don't agree that they should be a major component in Camps. That's where the "pay to view" incentive comes in for a company.
If anyone wants to come to a Camp and do some taping I'm sure that could be arranged.(But I'd be concerned that it might in some way inhibit some of the spontaneity which tends to be our trademark at these events...).And there probably ARE a number of 'Botters such as Brady,who could do specific sessions on skills which they think would benefit others. I would encourage anyone with enough skills to join in add to the general pool of knowledge. But I think the resultant products should be handled through some other outlet (maybe as you suggested through the Project Wizard which would seem to provide a great venue, as well as a source of income which could be the incentive to get people involved). It would also allow people to produce these videos in a controlled environment, such as their own shop where they could DO "retakes" if they weren't happy with their first effort.
"However, I am sure some video would be better than none." I'm NOT so sure that this is true. While some people may have the best of intentions what happens if they aren't completely versed in the area they are filming? What if the focus is not exact and you can't see a safety device in place? Could "bad"information lead to damage or injury? What if someone gets hurt after trying something they see in a video? WHO bears the responsibility of "proofing"such videos?
And while I agree that a video once produced "will keep on giving", will it keep giving current ,and accurate information as technology changes?
In a "perfect world" each Camp would be mostly comprised of "Show and Tell" and each presenter would explain HOW they produced their items, along with some updates on what people in other areas of the country have done during THEIR Show and tell sessions. We'd then add some of the current news from Shopbot, and let the rest of the agenda be "attendee driven". This is why we continually ASK people what they would hope to see at each Camp. In time Camps could morph into regional "user's groups" modelled in part after the ongoing Letterhead meets.
I DO like videos. And I'd like to see informative, well produced, and pertinent ones. I'm hoping that as we continue refining this process we'll find a way to make some accessible to everyone.

[gene]

Bill,
I agree that trying to create a video of the hole thing would be extremely costly and have possible legal issues as to the safety of performing task . What if it was done as a webcam sort of post or video on the end products that the botters are doing. Absolutely the people who missed the atlanta camp at Ed's truly missed out on seeing some incredible work. Two people that i was impressed by was the guy (sorry i am terrible about names) who did his fathers pharmacy with 43' curved counters and counceling areas as well as the guy from fla who did the before and afters on the entertainment centers . Also some of the signs and the work by Paul N was incredible . NOTHING is as good as being there and interacting tith the others , Is there a way to just set up a cam corder to show just the work people are doing without getting in too deep. In other words use it as an inspiration type thing and NOT an instructional thing. I know that with the wide range of tallent that the botters have if they see something they, most of the time can figure out how to complete the task at hand. I knew 20 some years ago when i started woodworking that there were associated dangers with this . I also realise that with money hungry lawyers pushing the idea why work for it , just sue type of attitude you do have to be careful, but if it is shown as look what i can do attitude let it up to the botters own sense of ability to know if they have the ability to do it for themselves.
If they need help go to the forum.
Safety is priority 1 for me and my help and i never push anyone to do something they are not comfortable doing so keep it safe.
I hope that this is not offensive to anyone , and i know that i DO APPRECIATE what shopbot does in sponsering the camps but that was a big part of the reason i bought a bot and not another type cnc. The forum and the company support was a big influence on my decision, I know that if i can't go to any other camps that being able to see the photos is a big plus so i can pick up tips to further my botting. photos are good but i think video is better. Just my 2 cents.... Thank you and keep up the great work.