Out FRONT

[jhicks]

These are a couple new Double Sided signs we are expecting to have installed this week. The narrow INFORMATION CENTER sign sits atop a horizontal "flag pole" and the larger one will be hung below perpendicular to main street.
Methods and materials were 1,1/4" thick poplar base board, 1/2" Medex surface sanded down to 3/8" applique letters, art, and borders as shown in the photo at right before prime and paint.
Base was area clear routed .015" deep in areas with letters, border, and art cavities to allign, inlay, and secure in proper positions after painting. All materials 3 coats alkyd primer, 3 coats acrylic latex exterior spray semi gloss finish as independent elements front sides and backs.
Once all components were painted, they were attached to the base with clear liquid nails.
After paint cure we add a couple coats of Butchers wax just to add an extra gloss and protective finish.

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[john_l]

Great Job Jerry. Just curious.. you mentioned that you area cleared below the letters and elements. I am wondering, what bit you used for this clearing and how did you went about getting the square edged letters like "L,F,T" into these routed placement/aligning recesses? Thanks again, John

[john_l]

another Q; since you painted the letters and then applied them... were the recesses slightly oversized to allow for any extra paint thickness, etc? Thanks, John

[jhicks]

John, IF we were really concerned about an INLAY type snug fit we would have to use the same bit diameter on the letter cut outs as the pocket they fit into. In most case we are NOT looking for an inlay tight fit for the reasons you describe in note 2. Yes they are slightly oversized meaning we area clear the pockets with a similar sized bit as the letters are cut out with. in this case i believe we used an 1/8" end mill to cut the outside profile letters out, then probably a 3/16" bit to area clear inside the same vectors outlining the letters. Sometimes we offset the pocket slightly like .015" just to make sure we have a good but easy fit. On sharp corners we find its easier to simply skive out the corners with a sharp chisel since its Medex and is a snap to cut those corners off in a shallow pocket area.
Once accomplished and dry fit, the clear Liquid nails does occasionally fill edges then can be cut off or peeled off before it dries completely.sometimes we use a caulk called "poly seam seal" which flows outward, then we clean up and it dries clear around the edges.

In the end, the allignment, fully painted surfaces, and simple glue and stich approach seems to work well but I must give credit to Joe Crumley for introducing us to the technique. He used it on his RUMORS sign which is posted in great detail with excellent step by steps and photos.

[jhicks]

These finally got installed so here is the final view. Plus one more with 2 other signs hung 2 doors away. Front street is explained above, other 2 are V carved, primed, and painted poplar.
It seems the local redevelopment coordinator is quite happy and we anticipate several more in this nice little main street district so I guess finding the right audience for this type of work is key to word of mouth referals and the right fit in the market.

Enjoy.

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[jhicks]

Thanks for some of the positive earlier feedback on our posts. Today I need to update you sign makers and get some advice.
This sign certainly made the customer happy and looked quite good...........Until Yesterday's e-mail!
The note said "Jerry, 3 of the letters have fallen off our sign"
The short version is I went there immediately and took the entire sign down for inspection and resolution because there most were weak and since have been removed.
What is the cause of this? That's where perhaps some of your experience will be helpful.
We used Construction Grade clear Liquid nails to glue the letters in place. Looked and felt good when it left but here we are 30 to 60 days later hear this. ARGH%#%#%$. Paint adhereing well but can peel off the adhesive with chisel and by hand?
So I called the folks in tech support at LN only to hear, "You did everything right, that shouldn't have happened" "If you called today and asked, I would tell you to do it the way you did it"
So I called my friend Joe Crumley and the 1st thing he said was "Dont use that ****" "Its never going to work"
"USE the clear GE silicone Glue" Another trusted friend says "USE polyseam seal"
So here we are cleaning this baby up and planning to fix and reinstall. But before we start to use another adhesive, I thought I would put it out there for feedback and advice.
Base sign back is Poplar, primed and painted.
Elements are medex, primed and painted all surfaces.
can't screw as its double sided, don't want to brad nail, fill, and repaint if we don't have to.
Need a glue for Chicago weather we can rely on.
For now were moving in GE Silicone II glue direction to test but open to feedback from those with experience in this area.
Thanks

[poconopete]

Silicone usually works well. What brand latex did you use?

[lex]

I understand that it should be alot less expensive to make and glue the sign...But was wondering if anyone just cuts this type of thing from a single sheet..

[rustnrot]

Use a polyurethane marine sealant/adhesive. 3M 5200 (in caulk tubes, some Home Depots have it, many do not) or West Marine is so strong that if you use it, for example, to adhere something to a boat's gel coat and try to remove it, the gel coat generally peels off the hull first. Comes in some colors, not clear though.

[lex]

Just a friendly warning......Do Not Get 5200 on anything you don't want permently stained.
I have several pairs of pants that have white splotches....

[jhicks]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice and will test silicone next week before moving forward.
Rolf, used Benjamin Moore acrylic latex.
Lex, we have made from single sheet stock and it's Ok to do but painting for us becomes so many isolated paint/dry/paint processes plus the edge detail is difficult to achieve and takes 2 to3 x as long to complete but it's certainly one way to do it. of course thats basically the way sandblasters do it.
Tom & Lex, I'll start the hunt for 5200 caulk and west marine adhesives.
Thanks again for the ideas and help.