Post Your Pitfalls, Please

[jemelby]

I almost pulled the trigger on a Shopbot several years ago. Then, after 9-11, I was too busy with other things. Now I am back on the hunt, and keen to make a purchase.

The first thing I noted is that alot has changed in the market for low-end CNC routers. There are a few upstarts making a name for themselves. Back when I first started this endevour, there was only shopbot and everyone else. The choice was pretty simple. Now, there seems to be several reputable, competitive options available, as well as new offerings from Shopbot.

The point of this post is an attempt to draw out you, the Shopbot community, and hopefully get some honest responses about what you DON'T like about your Shopbot, or what you may regret about your purchase (not getting a spindle from the get-go, not getting the alpha instead of the standard, not getting a dog instead of a CNC router, etc...)

I know from reading the many threads that you are all avid and staunch Shopbot fans. I will immediatly conceed that the Shopbot is a fine machine. But there's always SOMETHING :-)

Here's a few bullets to get you thinking:

I sent an onine inquiry to Shopbot about a week ago, and have not yet recieved a response. Do you all get the support you need from Shopbot (not the forum)?

Shopbot has a huge fan base which is in-and-of-itself a powerful lure.

From reading in other forums, my attention was drawn to the fact that Shopbots do not speak a standardized CAM language. I hear otherthings like "G-code" and "Constant Velocity". Do you miss these with a Shopbot? (Looks like AOL vs the Internet)

Has Shopbot kept up with inovation and technology as well as the competition?

These were just a few points to consider. I am not by any means looking to bash Shopbot, But sometime you just want a thing to be so perfect, you will tell yourself lies to convince youself of its worth. You honesty and candor is appreciated.

[tradition_wood]

Well I don't own one yet and posted a similar question last week, I did go on Buyer Zone on a whim when I saw it when searching for CNC companies. One of the companies it matched me with was ShopBot and of the 3 they were the only one who did get back to me, and they did within a day.

From what I have seen here the ShopBot would do everything I need it to do and the support from other users here is a huge plus. I would love to find one close enough to me and actually see one in action. I did see one at the show in Atlanta a few years ago but the booth was so busy and my time was short so I didn't get to spend much time looking at it.
Just my thoughts and I know where your at.

[jemelby]

I wanted to expaciate on one of the bullets I put in the original post. Perhaps one of my biggest concerns is the point about a common CAM language. I am not entirely sure I am smart enough to even ask this question.

Having spent a career in the military, one of the first things you learn is that it's better to be wrong together than right by yourself. History is littered with the smoldering, rotting remains of "better ideas." Case in point is Sony Betamax. Arguably far superior to VHS, yet VHS won out because it was more widley marketed and standardized. Betamax remained on the Sony island, and thus withered away.

I have read plenty about how the Shopbot language is "easier" and "better", but this is meaningless if the rest of the world accepts and uses a different standard.

Even Sony has learned to support other media formats for their cameras and such. By staying utterly propietary, they were missing a huge segment of the market.

WHEW! I'm out of breath. So, maybe someone can tell me if this diatribe has anything to do with aftermarket control boards for the Shopbot?

[ed_lang]

James,

Yesterday there was a group of folks in my shop. Some had never seen a machine and other had owned one for years. These "camps" or "user groups" are just one of the ways support is spread around with the ShopBot user base. As you said, you are aware of the support from the user base and understand the value of this.

ShopBot has never not gotten back in touch with it if I left a message or email. I have not used the web feedback form so I cannot comment on that. One thing for sure, if someone needs some help, the best way is to pick up the phone and call them. If it is, say Sunday morning, like right now, don't expect someone to pickup the phone! Leave a message and you just might get a call back on a Sunday! If not, I bet Monday morning you will. I have been to the factory several times in the past two years. Starting when I picked up my machine. Also the Jamboree two years ago and to ride along with another person to get their machine. Everytime, everyone in Durham is keeping busy doing their jobs, but NEVER TOO BUSY to stop and talk or help me or someone who need something explained.

Since you are looking for the pitfalls, and so far I have not given you any data that you requested let me try and come up with something.......

Still thinking.....

Give me more time and I'll think of something and be back to post again.

If you ever go to a camp, users group, factory or Jamboree, you will quickly learn that one of the things that will stand out is everyone at ShopBot likes what they do, are real good at what they do, have a machine at home and know how to run it, and don't feel that they are just working for a company, they all all a part of the company.

Have you noticed how other companies have copied the ShopBot design! Not their service, support or software.

This is not a paid ad even if it sounds like one. I just feel that good about my machine, and the support I know I have backing me up.

You will be welcomed into the family with the time is right for you.

[ed_lang]

James,

Looks like I was typing when you were.

Did you know that ShopBots will run G code?

I don't use G code so have not experience with it.

I use Corel X3 for most of my design work and V-Carve PRO for my toolpaths. I like Corel since I use it with a laser engraver. The CAM packages that I have seen, all have post processors for the ShopBots.

When buying the laser for example, everyone will agree that the size of the machine is important, but the service you get after the sale is more important that anything. With my ShopBot, I can call, talk to someone who will help me and get me running. With the big iron machine, I could call, wait for an on site visit and I had better be ready for the bill.

[jemelby]

Ed. Thanks for the responses. Everyting typed in this sort of thread is worthwhile, and your points are well taken.

I noted that you mentioned that you have a laser engraver. While I am wallowing around trying to decide what to do with life-after-the-Army, I considered both a laser and a CNC router. I've since decided that the laser can come later. I think the laser work would be easier to out-source than the CNC work. Not that I really know what I'm going to do with any of it yet.

I've been an avid wood worker for a couple decades, and have even made some coin with it when pressed hard enough to do custom work. Most of what I have done sits in my house, and it the houses of friends and family.

I have plenty of vision, and plenty of good ideas. The trouble is pulling it all into a coherent business plan. I'm trying to keep my risk low. I don't want to become so invested that a failure would be ruinous.

I would like to be able to justify a Shopbot for pure hobby use. Then, once profficient in its use, consider a business based on it.

[richards]

James,
Do you have a lot of G-code programs already written that you're planning on running on a Shopbot? If not, the question is mute. There are a lot of different G-code 'versions' out there. The very basic commands are 'standard', but not every command. It's kind of like writing 'C' code for a computer. Depending on whose compiler I'm using, the code may compile or not.

There are things that I don't like about my Shopbot and there are things that I don't like about my Dodge truck. The Shopbot gets the job done and my Dodge truck gets me where I need to go. The fact that I have to scrunch down one inch to see the top of the speedometer does not affect the performance of the Dodge. The fact that I have to lift material up an extra six inches if I feed it from the side does not affect how the Shopbot cuts. If I got off my lazy duff, I could raise the table on my Shopbot and put lifters under the X-car to solve that simple problem.

I think the question that should be asked, is that if you had to do it all over again, would you buy the Shopbot or something else? I would buy the Shopbot. Period.

[ed_lang]

I would buy ShopBot again as well.

I might buy two smaller units rather than the one PRTalpha96 I have now. Most of what I cut is small and I have a small shop.

[henrik_o]

James,

quote:Do you all get the support you need from Shopbot (not the forum)?
Let's put it this way: I live in Sweden, English is my third language, I had never seen a shopbot until mine arrived, the whole support organisation is one ocean and six time zones away. And this hasn't been a problem. When I have needed help, I have recieved it, in a timely manner. When something has been amiss, Shopbot has been right on it and seen it through to completion.

Pitfalls? If that means failure to live up to my expectations, no, I can honestly say there has been none: I did my research and knew exactly (well, reasonably close) what I was buying.

The shopbot is a budget cnc machine; extremely competent in its segment, but still low cost. It has limitations, obviously. Caveat emptor.

That said, I personally feel that with the new PRS's Shopbot has closed the gap so well that right now what's mainly separating it from the bigger boys is the lack of an (affordable) toolchanger. If they could crack that nut, pun intended, it would be as large a deal as the Shopbot itself was when it came out.

I also think they really need to get that going, because five years from now this market is going to look a whole lot different with the industry moving aggressively to cover the low cost segment and the Chinese haven't even entered it yet (they will, be sure of it). This is the talk in Europe now, low cost is the new black, so to speak, it's where the focus is. It is very good that Shopbot is working on the 5 axis machine, but I think they will need that toolchanger to remain a major player in what looks to be a market that is about to explode.

Ok, that's enough ravings from me.

[jemelby]

Stolen from another thread:

>>is something that you don't like?

>When I lean my belly against the rails I get a grease mark on my shirt.

That tears it. I never do anything without wearing one of my $400 custom tailored shirts that I travel all the way to Liverpool to have made twice a year! Shopbot will never do! And why didn't anyone mention this in MY thread!??

Ha... The point is: I appoligize for starting this thread in the first place. I musta past over that thread two or three times before posting. It's almost the exact same question I am asking. Thanks for posting here, too, though.

[myxpykalix]

James,
Having been one of the first video stores in the country in the mid 70's having dealt directly with Sony and Betamax's and panasonic vhs, this is a good analigy(?)

Sony was higher quality and higher priced. Panasonic was lower quality (but still good) but lower cost.
They BOTH recorded television which was all the end user cared about.

(self professed ignorance about cutting code here)
But if you can go from Art to Part with what you are supplied with from Shopbot then what difference does it make what "language" it uses?

Just as the average user didn't care whether he had a vhs or betamax just that it recorded his favorite shows.
Like you i'm just a hobbyist and i don't use mine everyday but i do use it to fix up and add value to my rental houses. I have increased my rents by an additional $450./mo due to the improvements.
When i bought, I got the biggest table with an indexer to make 8' columns and such. I find that i use only half my table for most of my projects though. But if i want to make a full sheet of something i have the ability.
Deciding what you are going to do with your bot is key. I decided to go big and that allows me to do smaller stuff, but i couldn't do big stuff on a small table. Although you might want to check the new models.
I doubt you will get much publicly displayed dissatisfaction here as we have been endoctrinated and are loyal "Botheads".

[donchapman]

I've owned my SB for 7 years and am very satisfied with my purchase. The few times I've needed to contact SB they have been prompt and helpful. But I rely much more on the SB Forum for info than I rely on the SB central office itself, simply because the response from the forum is almost always fast and helpful so I don't even ask the SB office. The forum is mainly made up of owners who know their machines and software and are very willing to help with whatever questions arise. In my opinion, unless you can find a CNC router manufacturer with a comperable forum, you shouldn't even consider anything but a ShopBot. That said, you can buy a comnpetitors product and the ShopBot forum members are nice enough to supply helpful info anyway. Less than two years ago Ray Chapman, a long-time professional sign maker extrodianair, looked at more expensive CNC routers and chose a ShopBot and has already surpassed my expertise in using his machine. In my estimation, you can't go wrong with a ShopBot. I could probably sell mine now for what I paid for it and if it died today, I would be perfectly satisfied that I had gotten my money's worth and more from it.

[pfulghum]

I see that this has drifted to ... "Does Shopbot provide support?"...

Put it this way...
I've owned a shopbot for about 4 years. The folks at shopbot seem to bend over backwards at any request I make of them. I've only had the pleasure of talking to Diane, Nancy, Ted, and Ryan, but the results are the same. I would love to have employees like them.

Then the forum adds the icing on the cake. People are willing to share solutions and ideas. This is great!

-- Pat

[wberminio]

I'm new to CNC.Proximity WHAT? X? Y? Z? Spindle?
I had to learn a lot in a short time(still learning)
This CNC thing could be intimidating.

My choice came down to ,not support, but attitude.
Everyone's attitude-from Dianne on my first call to
the guys during training at Shopbot,to tech support (who don't seem to mind stupid questions)to the actual manual,to everyone on the forum is -positive -your not alone-we are here to help you attitude.You definitely become part of the club.

PS Plus, I think it's a cool logo!

Thanks All for your continued support

[harryball]

I looked at the majority of CNC options then purchased a shopbot about 1 year ago. I've been running it and have been happy with the support and performance of the machine.

I would buy again. If you haven't already, find a shopbotter and go for a visit.

Robert