Bored pondering...

[harryball]

I'm going to broach this topic out of curosity since things seem to be working out OK for me. (I'm also bored right now) I had gallbladder surgery yesterday after about 2 weeks of investigative tests and concerns. We prayed for the best case, removal through 4 small slits with no tumors or cancer and going home the same day. This was not a simple "stone" surgery. We got close to that, I'm fine ended up staying overnight due to some minor complications but tests cleared me this morning.

Anyway, not trying to share my life woes or anything... but it was what I found myself thinking about all night laying in as the nurses kept poking on me that made me realize I need to "figure this out". I plan to recover but it could have taken me a few weeks with the first in bed for the worst case this trip. My thought was how am I going to get jobs cut? I built ahead but as fate would have it we sold EVERYTHING I pre-built litteraly while I was in surgery. If recovery was going to take more than a week or two I'd be in a tough position.

To my point... I would love to hear how you guys in a similar position plan to handle something like this. I realize you can't plan for everything but supposing you survive how do you one man, few man shops cope? Do you have another botter near by you'd trust to hire? Have you made any plans etc...

In my case, I plan to be conscience and point at stuff for my son and wife. I've been teaching my son to actually build the houses and my wife does all the painting already. There are a few gaps I need to close though. If I were unable to point... the shop would shut down. Certainly not a big deal in the short term but a month could be a serious issue.

/RB

[cabnet636]

i for one am just glad you're ok, all works out for the best, faith
jim mcgrew

[Gary Campbell]

Robert...
At present our 2 man shop is down a man. My son just had GI surgery and will have what appears to be a somewhat lengthy recovery period. Testing shows that there may be more surgery.

I am fortunate that another son is able to help me out with a 10 day installation at present, but am experiencing similar questions about his 6 week+ recovery period. Like you we didnt plan for this, and I am trying to figure out how to keep up with orders and not offend customers with later delivery dates. Due to his inability to work over the past few months, which has resulted in decreased production, some are irritated already.

Training an employee is out of the question, as few are available with needed skills. I may find someone with some general woodworking skills, but feel it may be impossible to find one that could replace what Gary does on the ShopBot, not to mention his many other abilities.

I will also be on the side paying close attention, wishing for the "magic answer".

Get well soon, Robert, you are in our thoughts, Gary

[rcnewcomb]

1) Six months of family expenses in savings
2) A disability insurance policy that kicks in after 180 days
3) A partner that can run the business on his own

[wberminio]

Robert
I glad you're recovering.The world NEEDS your Bat houses!
I too work alone.At one time, I had a small crew 4-5 men.When I was down, all were down.(just more payroll) Now with only myself,if I'm down all is down.
I don't think there is a simple answer.But, you
got me thinking....

Get well soon Robert

Erminio

[harryball]

Some aspects of the formula are emerging... I agree with Randall, we also keep 6 months of expenses in savings and I feel this is a requirement though I admit it is tough to do when you really want things like a new PRS Alpha or a new car. But, that's not the purpose of the money. I find "hiding" it is the best approach and keep it in an Ameritrade Money Market account that is at several days reach to transfer money. I use to keep it closer... but I found the temptation to dip too much. I do relax much more knowing the bills can be paid. I just hope delayed orders don't result in lost future customers.

Disability insurance is something I need to look into.

I need to train my son better, he's old enough to do many of the work details, it's just tough to get a 13 year old male to pay attention sometimes and there are somethings in the shop I simple feel he is not ready for. He will get older and eventually move on I'm sure.

Something else I've been working toward is letting our customers know we are a small personal mom and pop show. For us that works well and makes it more personal for the customer which I find they desire. For some businesses, however, that may not be desirable. In our case I feel (with some exceptions) a quick phone call about delays would generally be accepted well.

In my case we've built a nice little business and I'd just hate to see it die if something serious were to take me out for a month or two.

I appreciate the goodwill, thanks. As with everything I try to learn from every experience to prepare for the next.

/RB

[bcammack]

Good luck with your recovery and the business. That's a life-changing surgery.

My granddaughter is going in for the same procedure tomorrow. Her mother left town this morning to be with her.

Don't hesitate to train your son! If you can grab a boy's curiosity and get his enthusiasm going there is nothing he cannot learn.

I was rebuilding Briggs & Stratton tiller motors and building minibikes and go karts when I was that age. A dyed-in-the-wool motorhead after helping my Dad rebuild V8 Fords from time I was old enough to grab the right tool and hand it to him while he explained what he was doing.

[gene]

I wonder if there is anyone who isnt tied down and would like to travel and see the world who could come and fill in for shop owners who find themselves in this spot? I realise that a quality employee is very valuable and not easily replaced so maybe this post will plant a seed for someone and they can travel, meet new people, and get to see new places . I know that if i didnt have so much on me right now it would sound very good, or maybe i could hang a sign on the shop door that says I lost my mind and have gone to look for it. be back later....................

[harryball]

First, thanks for the well wishes. Still sore, but doing better. I have, however, dropped 16 lbs in 8 days. Not that I don't need to loose it but I realize this is not the best way.

Gene, I think you have an interesting idea. I've coerced my son to handle the heavy stuff, my wife is getting in there too... but if I suddenly had another orchard order for 50 houses I could see myself wanting to hire someone with "operator skills" for a week or two. In my case I'd not even be concerned with spending the profit from the deal as I'd be more concerned about protecting my reputation as being able to deliver on a reasonable timeline vs. the 12+ weeks much of my competition takes to deliver a couple of houses.

I guess technically if the individual was hired as a contract employee much of the paperwork would be mitagated, just a 1099 for the year. Liability would be the biggest issue so I'd have to make sure my premiums were paid.

Anyone have thoughts on that? What would be the legal/insurance/tax problems facing me if I wanted to hire Mr. contractor Bob Botter for 2 weeks?

What would Bob Botter need to do on his end to make himself available for such work?

/RB

[myxpykalix]

Harry,
It would seem that there might be an easier way to do this. It might be easier for you to contract someone in their shop to cut your designs and then ship them to you.

The problem is then you risk your designs being used by someone else. Maybe have them sign some kind of agreement. But in the longrun it might be cheaper to do it that way then to try to get one of us to come to your shop and work. With the cost of gas, lodging, meals, ect.

Also i know my machine better than i would know yours and the chance of someone messing something up are pretty good.

As much as you have helped me, i'd pitch in a day or two's work for free to help you out (only because i'm retired and don't use the bot as a production unit).

I'm lucky in that i have a fellow botter and friend just 20 miles from me that if in a pinch would help me.

[Gary Campbell]

Robert...
I am not sure how this would work across state lines, but I am a licensed, insured professional. I am sure that if I came to your shop and did a job, either by the hour or a contract price, both of our insurance companies would be OK with that. If I did a good job you would be OK with that. And if you actually paid me......

Seriously, a licensed professional with liability may be all you need. As a corp. you dont even have to 1099 me!
Gary

[beacon14]

What license are you referring to? A business license? I think the only license you would need to work at another shop would be a drivers license.

[Gary Campbell]

David...
A (FL) state required professional license. (tax) 15 hrs school, 6 hr exam, 6 person county board approval of your credentials, plus of course, the annual fees. In addition to the county occupational license, the village occupational and business licenses. But far and away the most important.... THE FISHING LICENSE!!!

In FL, if you are not a license holder, and someone pays you, you are an EMPLOYEE! and we all know what labor burden is. Add on all the taxes and pay the witholding & comp. I was going with Roberts general idea of being able to "hire" someone and not incur an insurance or tax liability.
Gary

[bleeth]

License requirements vary immensely from state to state for trades right up to General Contractor Licenses. There are many states for which all you need is to buy a small bond and liability insurance and you can get the license. In Florida Carpenters can get a county license easily which in South Florida gives reciprocal rights in several counties but not statewide. The state license does have more stringent requirements but few states have reciprocal agreements with each other. So my Florida state carpentry contractors license has no standing in Georgia legally.
The employee vs sub-contractor issue is even more complex not only due to licensing and insurance but also tax laws. If you hire someone and he works under direct supervision he is an employee even if you send a 1099. If you point him in the direction of the job and say "go do it" he may be more easily labelled a non-employee or a sub-contractor.
If you are a furniture maker or wood products (like bat-houses) manufacturer none of the exam type state licensing applies. It kicks in when it comes to installation of millwork and/or cabinetry.
Technical definitions aside though, the main thing, in my opinion, is your legal and moral responsibility and recourse in case of problems.
In Gary's case, he can come run my bot or any other tools I have any time he wants to get out of the keys for a while.

[Gary Campbell]

To expand on what Dave says above, the IRS may want to know if the entity that you hire has a phone listed in the company name, takes out advertising, works independently as a subcontractor for others and has a Federal ID number. If these are met, then he is not an employee. If not, he may be considered a "captive subcontractor", meaning he is a sub by definition and on paper, but only works for one company, which probably sets his hours and pay rate, therefore making him an employee. Writing a 1099 to this person causes one a lot of grief.
DO NOT ASK ME HOW I KNOW THIS!!
Gary

[gene]

Just do as i do and when you get asked for a license all you have to say is "its on the back bumper of my truck fool".... sorry I had to say that. I am in Augusta Ga and the county has started requiring a state lic. In a way it keeps everyone with a pickup and a saw from running around calling themself a contractor and doing shotty work. Being in this type work for over 20 yrs i can understand this for that reason , They have tightened up alot on this and with some of the work i have seen done by so called contractors their work was terrible to say the least. All it means to me is more money out of my pocket , continueing ed classes and more paperwork. I sure wish i would have been born rich instead of good looking.....

[gerryv]

Form a co-op. (No it's not communism or far-left, it's common sense) Be selective about members so don't advertise it. Have a means of verifying and rating members capabilities, strengths and weaknesses in all key areas. Try to be geographically close. Drop ship but bill direct whenever possible. Be willing to share profits. Immediately drop the parasites. I'd not comment if this was about the trades but it's about business so I'll risk a shot at it.

[bill.young]

Hey,

I have a good friend that's a retired orthopedic surgeon, and for a couple of years after he closed his practice he would travel around the country filling in for other orthopedic surgeons when they went on vacation. He loved it...maybe someone could create a ShopBotting equivalent?

Bill

[bleeth]

Are you volunteering your services Bill?
Or are you volunteering some other Bill who closed his shop a while ago???

.

[billp]

Dave,
Actually the right person for this "job" is probably a retired psychiatrist who owns a Shopbot...

[harryball]

Shopbotting Psychiatrist... now that would be a valuable combination. But I'm afraid if he visited with me he'd need more than a few weeks. :-)

/RB

[gene]

I went to one, one time . while we were talking i noticed him steady writing notes one after the other. When he left the room i peaked at the notepad and all he had written was he's just plain nuts, just plain nuts, over and over.....

[dray]

Heya RB.. I was in bed for 2 months and unable to get around for another 2-3 months. I broke my knee for the second time in a stupid motorcycle accident.

I had been lucky and invested in a good hartford disability/insurance policy. This happened just before I bought my bot and he reason I bought my bot.

This saved us.. Its a small cost to pay for a monthly insurance policy of this type just to know you arent going to lose your house etc.

I have been a finish carpenter all my life and I laid there in bed knowing I'll never be able to work the way I used to It was and is still mentally crushing but the Bot saved my livelyhood along with my hartford insurance policy..

Something to keep in mind.. Nothing, no job, no customers, no clients are worth your health or your families welfare.

I have been completely overwhelmed with work for the last couple months and my wife constantly has to remind me this.. The customers timeline is not worth your health or stress.

something to think about.

[harryball]

I need to explore disability insurance for sure. I've been fortunate not to have too many issues and this issue has only cost me 2 weeks. I was able to get some work done today and I'm feeling much better.

I know what you mean laying in bed and thinking. Playing the what if game leads you to alternatives you'd rather not think about.

I try to keep things in focus and I know when I simply can't do something, people are just going to have to wait. I'm fortunate that the nature of this business is pretty laid back... not too many people get bent out of shape if their bat house is a little late. But some do!

Our order board is clear as of today. My wife and son did a great job finishing the houses I'd prebuilt. Today we got everything finished up and boxed ready to go, about 500 lbs of shipments.

/RB