Any children's puzzle makers out there?

[mriehm]

Hi. Experienced woodworker who wants to learn everything about cnc. Don't currently have a machine or know how to run one. Mainly interested in producing children's jigsaw puzzles out of baltic birch.
Can anyone direct me to detailed instructions for making puzzles? I would like to make simple name/number/jigsaw puzzles in production runs?
Is anybody doing this?
Is a CNC router the best machine or should I be looking at a laser cutter? I like the Shopbot training and support network and would like to buy a 4x4 (alpha?) machine. I am motivated to learn. Hope to make it to Chapel Hill soon.
Any advice much appreciated. I have a lot to learn. AnyShopbotters close to me? I live in Lawrence, KS.
thanks,
Mike

[knight_toolworks]

I think a laser is a better choice. the kerf is far smaller and you don't have to worry about bit flex and tearout.

[drodda]

Gary Beckwith is in witchita/derby area in Kansas. Look under the shopbot camps section for Kansas camp and you will find information about Gary.

[ed_lang]

Hi Mike,

I think a laser would be the better choice of machine for making puzzles. The kerf on my 50W Universal Laser is 0.005". I can cut 3/4" baltic birch but that is pushing the machine to the max. I cut 1/8" baltic birch 12 hours a day 7 days a week with mine. Some 1/4" and some 3/8" baltic as well.

If you do go with a ShopBot, you will be able to still make puzzle parts, with more scrap, but it can be done. The ShopBot will open up doors to making many other toys that the laser might not give you.

If you would ever like to chat on the phone about any of this, just email me and I'll send the phone number or I can call you.

I am glad I have the laser and the ShopBot.

[garyb]

Hi Mike, as Dave stated I'm just down the road from you, give me a call or email and I will be happy to help you out either with a demo or just Q&A.
Went to upload a puzzle for you(dxf, assembled and exploded)but I'm afraid the 50 kb bit me so it you want it send me an email.

[paco]

This one is done on the Bot.

link 1 (http://pacosarea.blogspot.com/2007/08/picasa-to-blooger-publishing_12.html)

link 2 (http://picasaweb.google.com/the.real.paco/CNCMadeParts/photo#5119498059018224434)

I first made it from Baltic birch plywood but I wasn't happy with the look and it was a pain to sand the edges and the ones for which it was made were not happy painting on Baltic birch.

I now do the puzzle from MDF and much more success in all aspects.

[paco]

This Bill Young version may interesting you... (http://seaside5592.blogspot.com/2004/11/puzzle-letters.html)

[ed_lang]

Paco,

I like the nice tight fit to the MDF puzzle parts you made. I would like to hear more about how you designed them and cut them. I also expect you had to cut each part and then put them together. Which is how Bill Young makes the Puzzle Letters which are quite nice!

My thoughts were to put a shape into the laser and cut without any kerf to allow for.

Mike - Buy a ShopBot! You will love it!

[paco]

Hi Ed!

The design is very simple and it's actually has to be for the parts to fit all together "wherever" you put them. It's all about ONE curve. Once one part is made, they're actually almost all are. My idea was a 4-5 inches large puzzle part that can be cut with a 1/4" CED tool bit. The puzzle I do is currently cut from 3/8" thick MDF with a 1/4" CED, 1/2" CEL straight edge router bit.

I'm not very familiar with laser that cut wood but from my experience with laser in metals, there's always a kerf anyway. Cutting the puzzle part separately allow full control on the fit of the parts together.

[mriehm]

Thank you for all the replies.

Being a novice to CNC, I am attracted to the Shopbot because of the strong support and training network, as evidenced by this forum.
It seems that a CNC laser cutter might be ideal for puzzle layout cutting. However, what I really need is a CNC router which will have many more all-around uses in the shop and which will allow more opportunity to gain CNC knowledge and expertise. Unfortunately, I cannot afford both machines initially.
If a laser cuts cleaner, requiring less edge sanding, I will probably buy one eventually. But, it seems laser cutters are more expensive, and if I start with a Shopbot and take the time to learn to use it well, I doubt if I will ever regret the purchase. There are many other products I would like to produce and sell eventually. Mainly children's toys and products. I would like to hear time and cost estimates, comparing laser and router for making a basic 10-20 pc. puzzle (with backing), taking into account cutting times, sanding times, other labor times, machine maintenance and bits/laser costs, initial costs, etc.
Some basic questions:
How small of a kerf is possible with a router cutting bit, cutting through 1/4 or 3/8 Baltic Birch?
How do cutting speeds compare, laser vs. router?
Any advice on which machine is the best for what I need? I like the 4x4 size. Is the alpha worth the extra expense for my needs? Ditto with a spindle option instead of the Porter Cable router?
Ed - Just curious, what do you cut out of Baltic Birch 12 hrs a day?
Gary - thanks for the generous offer. I would love a demo. I will e-mail you.
Thanks,
Mike

[denver]

Hi Paco,

I like that puzzle. How do you size the interlocking parts so they fit together easily? I recently did a small project with several parts connected jigsaw puzzle style. I found that if I used the same dimensions for both male and female parts I needed a mallet to assemble them. How much allowance is necessary for a fit that's not too loose or too tight?

Thanks,

Denver

[paco]

Hey Denver!

When I was cutting this puzzle from Birch plywood, it was very tricky. Now that I cut it from MDF, the variation (if any) are less.

I currently use +0.0025" allowance (more material) with a 1/4"CED straight edge router bit at 2.5"/sec. and 2 passes at 12000 RPM. This give a nice fit that the painters like and that a kids wont get upset at playing with.
From my log on that project, it look like having no allowance give too loose a fit... it really is a per case scenario; you need to make test cut then adjust your firing.

I well remember that the Birch plywood version was about 40% lost due to bad fit AND having to fuss with wood grain. 1/4" and 3/8" Birch ply sheet good would wrap like crazy while MDF stay flat 'till the end. I remember I did a 3/4" solid hard wood version once with VERY "gentle" settings (and negative allowance) and it came out very nicely fit... with few tweaks first.

[ed_lang]

Mike,

Remember that laser is burning the wood so you will get a light brown color on the edges and some residue on the top and bottom of the parts. There are ways to reduct or eliminate this, such as masking the part. The laser beam is typically about 0.005" in diameter. With regards to your cut times, the more power the laser, the faster you can cut. I make ornaments, awards and plaques on my machine. Dogs, Cats, Horses, Light houses, Military and custom ones.

I bought the laser to mark or engrave on the wooden toys I made. I bought the ShopBot to make some of the wooden toys. I seem to have moved away from making wooden toys, but I hope to get back there one day. The "Santa" gene is strong in me.

My opinion is that the ShopBot would be by far the best investment you could make.

Think about it this way- The laser is like a wood burning tool and scroll saw all rolled up into one machine.

The ShopBot is like another employee that doesn't get sick, will work overtime, works well by himself, is on time, never takes a break, does EXACTLY what you ask and has the same woodworking skills that you program in.

As far as time to cut, that is something you will see at the demo you line up. Too many variables to tell you exactly what will happen in a forum setting without knowing the details of what you are doing. Cutter, router or spindle, how do you hold the part, what material and thickness etc...

The demo will be valuable to you.

Hope some of this helps.

[myxpykalix]

Ed,
"The "Santa" gene is strong in me". Clearly you have some "Claus" blood in you. You have the beard and the belly. Put you in a red suit and the resembalance is remarkable. HoHoHo...