Vacuum part file

[bjones]

Hi... just curious if anyone would be willing to share their partwizard file for cutting their vacuum table? I want something that has a few zones in it, going to be using a Fein Turbo III with it. I thought there was supposed to be a file in the disc that came with the shopbot but no luck.

I know I could design it myself, but i'd rather start learning with a known working one and adjust from there


Thanks for anyone's help!!
/brian

[fleinbach]

Brian,

I just sent you a zip file via e-mail of a two zone and four zone file, along with a PDF file, showing how to hook up the plumbing. I believe I may have downloaded this a few years ago from the shop site. If you're looking for something more than a four by eight table I could send you my file, which is for the 5' x 12' table. It has 13 zones. Here is a link if you want to see what it looks like.


http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/show.cgi?tpc=28&post=42554#POST42554

[cip]

Brian,
Here's one that wrote to cut a zone of any size at any location on the table. Worked OK for me.

Mike


multi-zone vac table

8070 (2.1 k)

[jhicks]

Note to Bill Young, Brady, or Bill P. Hey guys, wouldn't this make a suitable Project Wizard item? Seems like each user has unique zone size and table size requirements which they need to consider based on their typical work and layout, number of vacuums etc.
IF one designed a Wizard to machine along vectors against a variable grid with lets say a 1/2" ball nose .250" deep but could set their grid, zone, and spacing for best work layout, it would probably be a popular download.

As an aside for those building or designing a new vac table, we found that by bording each zone with a flat groove .031" deep and .250 wide approximately .5" offset outside each grid, then taping inside that groove with .062" thick x .250" wide Allstar Adhesive tape, each zone and the entire system has great suction through TRUPAN spoil board with simple rigid 6.5 hp vac's and those Rigid vacs are only $99.00 with a lifetime guarantee!

[Brady Watson]

Jerry,
I think Bill Young made a 'BradyVac' virtual tool of sorts for making custom sized grids. What gets me is...making a grid is a pretty simple operation & just about everybody should be able to draw a series of lines in PW using the block copy tool & then link them together to make a continuous back & forth path. Then using machine along vector, toolpath it. You only need to draw one zone & then copy it multiple times where you need it on the page.

For those that 'want it all done', there should be a few vacuum grids ready to go in the SBParts folder. Run them in preview mode to make sure that they are what you want.

My feeling is that everyone who owns a bot should be able to machine a basic grid comprised of lines...unless you are a total newbie and this is the 1st thing you are cutting on your machine. Either way, it is something that a user should know how to do just to add to his skill set & drawing/critical thinking abilities. One of my biggest peaves is the 'file frenzy' that goes on for things that are not that tough to draw in software...users short-change themselves of what they can do when they take the easy way out...

I'm curious, is it that people are too lazy to draw, or they just don't know how to go about it? If it is the latter, and there is enough interest, I will make up a brief tutorial on how to draw a grid in PW for use as a vacuum grid. In the past year, everyone who has bought a tool has received a copy of my PW training video, which should have provided enough instruction to cover drawing a simple grid...was the video not effective? Where are people getting stuck with the vac grid process? (Help me help you)

-B

[brian_h]

There's a bit of uncertainty when approaching a new project. I think it's safe to say we all have probably wasted material because we didn't think a project all the way through. It's hard to ignore someone who has a successful file already finished. I have several projects around the shop that I haven't finished because I need time to sit down and really focus on what needs to accomplished to do the project right. It's nice to have a shortcut now and then.

[bjones]

I am learning this and like to learn from what others have done in the past. Can I draw the grid myself? Sure I can, but I want to start with what I know works before delving into customizing it. If that makes me lazy in your eyes, so be it.

There is no vacuum table file in my SBParts folder which is why I asked for one. Seems those that have been around the block doing this for a while forget the days when they were brand new to it all sometimes.

To those that helped me, thanks a bunch, as my skills grow I will be sure to return the favor

[myxpykalix]

My only perspective on this is that the VAC file was the very first thing i ever attempted to cut on my shopbot, as i suspect it may be for lots of people who are setting up their bot with a vac table from the beginning. I can attest to the anguish you feel by cutting a hole in the table and seeing the floor thru it. I still am aprehensive about any file i make or get and go thru a mental countdown before i hit the button for BLASTOFF and even then i have the emergency stop in my hand anticipating problems.
I am new and question my abilities and knowledge and ask tons of questions (as you well know), because it is too easy to break something in an instant. So if someone has already made a successful file, why try to reinvent the wheel?
Having said that any time anyone has sent me a file or helped me create one I have learned more from that than anything i learned in class because i've had more time to understand it.

[Brady Watson]

For those that are missing the vac zone SBP files in their SBParts folder, extract the attached ZIP. Be sure to read the instructions, and run them in Preview mode 1st.

-B


Vac.zip (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/312/Vac-16650.zip) (7.1 k)

[Brady Watson]

I'm also attaching an EPS file of a single quadrant for a 4X8 table. Just mirror it accordingly to create 4 zones. Be sure to take into consideration where the grid sits and the diameter of the cutting tool. You want at least a .5" border around each zone. Use a MAV strategy, .25 to .375" deep. Scale up or down to fit YOUR material (might be 49X97 or 48X96 etc). There are 3 distinct vectors in this EPS. Ungroup, observe and think about what each is going to do.

Hints: Use the transform tool and mirror about line to finish out the zones...

-B

Single4X8Quadrant.zip (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/312/Single4X8Quadrant-16653.zip) (2.4 k)

[jhicks]

Hi Brady, I understand and agree on the basics. The thing I learned when making ours was to consider the entire table, the most effective zone system and grid size. It wasn't that I couldn't create the grid and machine it, rather that those that I saw out there didn't seem suitable for the variations I thought would work best for us.
A 4 zone 2' x 4' is simple enough but how much work do I do with 2' or 4' sheets? and just how versitile would such a pettern be? For me the answer was not very effective. So when we laid it out in 8 1' x 4' horizontal zones and 2 1 x 5 vertical zones on the ends we left some as independantly valved zones ( 4 ea @1 x 4 and 2 ea @ 1 x 5)and 2 center sections coupled together in 4 x 3 areas (but divided in 1 x 4 taped off areas to isolate each of those sections within the 3 x 4 zone) we ended up with a 5'x10' table that will accomodate any combination of sheet sizes or pucks including 1'x4, 1 x 5 1 x 8, 1x 9, 1x10 2'x4' 2 x 5, 2 x 8, 2 x9, 2 x 10, 3 x 3, 3 x 4, 3 x 5, 3 x 8, 3 x 9, 3 x 10, 4 x 4, 4 x 5, 4 x 8, 4 x 9, 4 x 10, 5 x 5, 5 x 9, and 5 x 10 just by opening or closing zones and by thinking it through but it did take some time to layout proper spacing, areas for gasket tape, and final valve systems.
When we have pieces smaller than the minimum 1 x 4 area, we drop a 1 x 4 puck over that zone and clamp or screw the piece to that puck so its a simple slap it down and run with no table or spoil board damage/wear. Finally as we cut into the trupan spoil board and resurface it, we end up with a thinner and thinner spoil board so we just put a new full sheet over the waffle iron and then the thin used spoil board on top of that and both our base table, primary spoil board are pure and flat with no wear, only a thin top spoil board gets abused, resurfaced, and abused again until its too thin to use any more. Then a new sheet and start over.
I guess you're right that its something everyone should think through and develop their own but sometimes by considering what others have done gets the wheels turning.
With that in mind a wizard like Free doors where one can model sizes of grids and vac layout considering frame locations and valves would no doubt give folks a helpful hand in their unique development on a table that works for them with maximum suction and versitility in a given zone or combination of zones. This is operated on 2 rigid 6.5 HP $99.00 lifetime guarantee vacvuums. 1 on each half of the table which can be opened on one side or both via a center valve which connects them through the manifold.
Hope this photo helps someone with their thinking on this subject.
8071
8072

[Brady Watson]

That's a nice setup, Jerry. I personally don't use a vac 'system' per se...but I do use a combination plenum grid/bleeder all-in-one that I can completely remove from my table when needed...Seems we all have different needs. I did a write up on the combo setup and it should have been posted by now in the 'Brady's Tricks' page...somebody must be busy.

Your setup perfectly illustrates that 'one size fits nobody'...I agree that there should be a program to do this...There has been one out there for several months now thanks to Bill Young and ShopBot Labs (http://www.shopbottools.com/shopbot_labs.htm) It will create an SBP of a grid any size you choose and let you size the grid squares to be whatever you want. While it doesn't nest all of the grids out on one sheet, people can use the offset feature to place/cut the grids anywhere they want on the table. For those that are unsure how to do this, visit Bill's Corner (http://www.shopbottools.com/bill%27s_corner.htm) and the 'Exploring Part Files Part 2' write up.

-B

[sagreen83]

Brady,

I think the reason why people want to get a pre-built file for vac tables is because before you have ran a vac table the entire process sounds like black magic. You are dropping about $400.00 into pvc and mdf and given the fact that you dont completely understand it, you want to get it right the first time. This was certainly my case. I have been running my bot for 3 years, and am super comfortable with creating a file for just about whatever I need to cut, but the vac concept was wierd to me to start with.

Scott...

[Brady Watson]

So is it a question of understanding 'vacuum theory' or is it something else? I need to hear from the people who are having trouble...Again, what part of the process are you getting stuck in? Many of us who contribute information to the benefit of all do so willingly, from our own trials and errors...nobody taught us how to do a lot of this stuff. We just figured it out. I say this because there may be elements of the process that seem blatantly obvious to me, but not for others...So again, help us help you. What is 'mysterious', not clear or befuttling in making a vacuum grid? What is the 'fear factor' in making it?

Before doing the vac grid full-scale, do you think that it would be a good idea to cut a smaller version and test it to drive home the concept? I built a small vac grid before commiting to the full monte. I also recommend setting your Zzero 1 inch above the table (MZ,1 & ZZ) and air-cut with the router off to SEE excatly where the bit is going to go before cutting your expensive material. There isn't much to 'mess up' in this whole process.

-B

[patricktoomey]

Brady, I think you have a good idea about having people new to vac systems cut a small version first and play with that. When I first built mine I was concerned because I was still trying to get my head around the fact that you could actually draw air through MDF and hold something down to it. It seemed like some sort of magic trick and although I believed everyone saying it would work, until I cut my first plenum board and hooked it up it was hard for me to accept. Once I got a sample 1 zone board done and it worked then I went to town and built my current 8 zone system and could not live without it. That first little trial was the key for me and I think that would be the answer to others as well. Plus if you build a 2' x 2' single system hooked directly to a vac, you could play with different pipe sizes, valve types, spoilboard materials, thicknesses, etc. before making the plunge for the full version.