Workarounds for the forum format...?

[henrik_o]

First, I realize this is probably a Developers subforum issue, but since it does not concern development for the shopbot or related software itself but rather this forum I'll post it here and hope the admin moves it if it doesn't fit in.

Right, the format of the talkshopbot forum has been driving me crazy. I have to keep the Help page constantly open and flick back and forth to do any formatting beyond a simple bold or italics. I don't know how people cope with this, maybe you just learn it in time or have some shortcuts handy, but for a newbie as me it's a mess.

I've written a very simple editor tailored to the format here. It's not a very elegant way to do it, since it still involves back and forths, but at least I don't have to type in the tags every time.

It basically works by having two text spaces, one for writing and formating, with a second displaying the code ready for copy/paste into the post window. As can be seen in this picture, here's the main text space with some formats.


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And here's the secondary text space with the auto-completed forum tags ready to be pasted.


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I've resized the window to keep the proportions within the limits imposed by the forum, but the actual editing window could be much larger.

This is still very basic, and I don't have a valid license to propagate this code, but if there's any interest in it I figure I could finish it up, pay the fee, and release it as a freebie.

Anyway, this is one example of getting around the awkward format of this forum, how do you guys cope with it? Is there a much simpler way I'm just missing?

[srwtlc]

FireFox with tabs open for each. Otherwise, I agree that an update is due.

[paco]

If you're a FireFox user, you may want to have a look at Clippings (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1347) Add-on (extension).

Pretty useful for other forum too...

[tuck]

I personally think that an upgrade is long past due. These are great boards for ShopBotters, but the format is cave man.

[hines]

I had spoken to Ted Hall and others about this before, which is how the "email you when a new post is made" function got turned on. A good point Ted made was that he likes to know how people feel about this but he wants factual information instead of a general "this sucks" explanation. Shopbot is listening but we need to explain ourselves and make a good case. One reason I would like to see a new site is for a new forum search. The current one is very difficult to use and majority of the results are useless.

[dray]

Improving the forum....

Theres not much wrong with it for casual conversation but anything more than that its too hard and too frustrating to use.

What I would like to see is..
1. in the forum line up, a files section where we could upload files to share!

2. I would like to be able to upload images up to around 500 kb or more. The people on this forum come from a very broad background, alot of questions people ask dont get answered because people just dont understand what someone is talking about. It takes like 20 mins to try to upload a pic, figure out its too bug, resize, find out its still too big then resize until you cant make out what it actually is.

3. make it fun and more interactive.

There are benefeits to both the forum users and Shopbot by adding a files section. Every day after work I carve something cool but its such a hassle to upload pics. Today I Vcarved a 6' chinese dragon, yesterday and the day before I used cut3d to "slice" a 3d nude model and cut it out (its bitchen!!!!). The day before I "sliced" 3d YODA head.. I dont bother posting pics because its a hassle!

There are some cool pictures in the "virtual show and tell" but it should be called a gallery.

Inside the gallery its confusing to navigate, there are folders, archives etc.

Inside gallery the moderator should be posting the coolest stuff up top to show what creative minds can do with a bot. Monthly contests.

By adding a files section it keeps the board active, gets people talking and showing pics of "that" carved file. It also shows perspective new shopbotters that it doesnt come second to a Thermwood.

I have said this before and heard it at the jamboree from other shopbotters. "This is where I came forst before buying a bot" at the beginning it was cool so I ordered a bot, by the 3rd month waiting for my bot I had seen enough moose heads and not knowing much about what it could do I almost cancelled my order.

I opened up the yahoo site to share files, we have a ton but ran out of space, I have been going back and forth with Jack , he did alot of research on finding a good board and host. So I was just going to host a board with almost unlimited space.

Before buying any cnc people gather files to cut and to look at what other people are cutting.

Does it make more sense to have shopbotters and other people looking into cnc routers to come to someone elses site for files or to look at pictures?

To me it just makes sense, but then again I dont know everything.

This is a realllly reallly good fully customizable forum, test drive it
http://www.vbulletin.com/

Oh yeah.. Usually board mods are Members! you dont need to pay someone to mod the boards.

I want to post stuff like this just to make people scratch their heads and go "what the ????" =P



Image removed by forum admin
---------------

[myxpykalix]

Danny,
i agree with you however you're wasting your breath...watch and see how long it takes for your post to be deleted or censored because of the pic. btw, did you check out that hosting server i sent you the link for? It looked like a pretty good deal but there were some technical questions that needed to be asked regarding what type of frontpage extensions and other filetypes that will be used in this bulletin board forum creation, that i didn't have the answers for. I'll check out your link to see if i can figure out the answers.

[myxpykalix]

Danny,
vbulletin looks like what:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/ runs. You might go there and look up Keith Outten. He runs that board and he has weighed in on this subject before and the only thing i recall from him was that his board was a lot of work. But i don't think we need to have anything as big as his is.

[terryd]

Gentlemen,

I would rather that shopbot spend their resources to continue to improve the operating software. The forum is great as a "commercial/industrial equipment" support tool. If you want to post pictures of two guys in overstretched thongs then take this oppurtunity and create your own site. Not everyone needs the comic book version to understand a great novel. This site is not about supporting your whims and desires. This site is about supporting a machine called "shopbot". Not many companies are willing to make an asset like this forum available gratis. As a matter of fact I can't think of any others at this time? Stop focusing on what's wrong and appreciate all that is right and remember just a few years ago a great number of the prolific posters would have never even been able visualize a CNC Router let alone own and operate (with massive forum support) one.
My 2 cents.

Terry D

[bleeth]

Terry:
Bravo!! Leave the smart a-- stuff (like the photos above) back on the grammer school playground where it belongs.

The efficient posting of photo's and files to share, however, would be a vast improvement. This is something that Shopbot's good friends at Delcam have set up on their forum and it is a valuable idea resource for viewers and posters alike.

[dray]

That is the group conscience speaking....

This forum believe it or not is a living organism, a living being. It is a child, a farmer, an architect, an artist, an engineer and many many more.

"I would rather that shopbot spend their resources to continue to improve the operating software. The forum is great as a "commercial/industrial equipment" support tool. If you want to post pictures of two guys in overstretched thongs then take this oppurtunity and create your own site. Not everyone needs the comic book version to understand a great novel. This site is not about supporting your whims and desires. This site is about supporting a machine called "shopbot". Not many companies are willing to make an asset like this forum available gratis. As a matter of fact I can't think of any others at this time? Stop focusing on what's wrong and appreciate all that is right and remember just a few years ago a great number of the prolific posters would have never even been able visualize a CNC Router let alone own and operate (with massive forum support) one."

If we were to never focus on whats wrong, we would still be writing on cave walls.

I have no clue what "gratis" means??..??

"The forum is great as a "commercial/industrial equipment" support tool."

Just reading that sentence gave me a headache and made me think of grey walls and a stack of boring books under bad flourescent lights.


I wouldnt want to read a boring paragraph by someone like that. But add a picture to something he is talking about and it suddenly makes sense.

Learning is 90% relating.... if we cant relate , we cant learn. We may not be able to relate on a linguistic level but by adding pictures someone can in their mind say "oh yeah, thats similar (relative) to my thingamajig I made" then add "here this is how I accomplished that"

But it as with the guys in the picture above is part of this organism.

I'm a carpenter. When an engineer is sitting across the table from me talking about something, I have no idea what the heck he is talking about nor do I care.. Does that mean I cant learn from him?? Nooooooo.

I may not be able to follow what he is saying but if there was a picture I can understand it.

I created my first cnc over 10 years ago but I cant talk to an engineer type and explain it to him so I write things/add pictures so anyone can understand them.

The very minute you set yourself on a pedestal you absolutely stop learning, your mind closes like a trap to anything new.

Dont mistake the big show for the passing parade.

[henrik_o]

Terry,
quote:I would rather that shopbot spend their resources to continue to improve the operating software.
This is, imho, a false dilemma. Shopbottools Inc, like any business, must generate sales in order to have any resources to spend at all, and let's not be shy here: this very forum is a major selling point. For international sales, it is quite probably the selling point. I live in Sweden. I can't go see a shopbot in action or go to a camp. There's no reseller, no service organisation, no nothing. If it wasn't for this forum, and the proof of their support and the machine's capacity, I would never consider buying a machine from the US. Never.

Yet, come late June I will have a spanking new PRSAlpha, and shopbot will have about thirty thousand dollars that used to be mine. That sale would never, ever, have happened if it was not for this forum. -- and I'd hazard a guess that 90% of overseas sales would not happen either.

So, let's not be coy about it -- this forum is in all probability generating serious sales. Sales that translate to resources to spend on making even better machines and software. It is one of the most powerful marketing mechanisms Shopbot has at its disposal, and something they have that nearly none of their competitors have or could achieve.

That doesn't mean SBT Inc should listen to every whim of the forum denizens, or shower this forum with features and doodazzles. But it does mean it should be recognized for what it is, a serious sales generator, and I don't think anyone on this forum should be made to feel like they're being obnoxious or ungrateful for asking for enhancements. Look at some of the regulars here and how much time they have devoted to imparting their wisdom and experiences upon the less knowledgeable folks (like me), then consider how many sales that may well have generated. Is it really that much to ask for? Really?

quote:If you want to post pictures of two guys in overstretched thongs then take this oppurtunity and create your own site.
No argument there.

quote:This site is not about supporting your whims and desires. This site is about supporting a machine called "shopbot".
And it is also part of their corporate marketing strategy, an important one, or at least it should be. I'm not sure it's fully recognized for what it is.

quote:Not many companies are willing to make an asset like this forum available gratis.
If they don't it's because they're idiots or simply don't have the user base to make it worthwile. Running a forum like this, with the low volume we have, costs pennies in licenses and bandwidth. The major cost is in policing it, having someone on a salary sit and wade through the stuff. So far, I have not seen any suggestions for enhancements that would require greater moderation, however.

quote:Stop focusing on what's wrong and appreciate all that is right and remember just a few years ago a great number of the prolific posters would have never even been able visualize a CNC Router let alone own and operate (with massive forum support) one.
We can appreciate what's good while identifying obstacles in a constructive manner very well, I think. There might be the occasional luddite that just wants to knock the whole forum idea for kicks, but the suggestions I have seen normally center on enhancing the user experience, as such plausibly the forum quality, ultimately increasing the marketing advantage of this channel. As long as its realistical and mannered (um, thong guys?) it should be a win-win.

--^*^--

Regarding the forum tagging issue, it seems to be a problem with DiscusWare's format. Sadly, I don't think there's much Shopbot could do about that, since backwards compatibility is a huge issue. Issues with this should in any case be addressed to DiscusWare LLC. I don't really understand how anyone could dream up a tag format utilizing not only one but two of the absolutely least used characters normally inscribed on a qwerty keyboard (the left and right curly braces), with case sensitivity right there for the operant, but ok, this probably seemed like a really good idea to a bunch of high-on-c++ geeks back in 1997. We seem to be stuck with it, and it's not Shopbot's fault.

The images and attachments issue does seem to be a bit different, though. This should be user controllable (in this case the user being SBT Inc). Quite frankly, I don't understand the internal consistency of the image size v. file size limitations. A JPEG file at normal web compression (7-8) is almost always going to be bigger than 50K @ 640 x 640 limit. Given the plausible 'type' of image on a forum like this, there is a need for line definition and relative clarity of details, so the two constraints (pixel xy/Kb) seem completely disjointed. Either shrink the allowable viewsize to 450 x 450 (or thereabouts) and stick with a 50K file size limit, or expand the file size limit to at least 100K. Ideally, I'd figure you want an allowable file size where at least 95% of the pictures at the max viewsize are legit at 7-8 JPEG compression.

My vote would be for a new viewsize of 800 x 800 with a filesize limit of 150K or slightly more. This format would allow for relatively clear definition in a usefully-sized picture and also accomodate most screenshot type images, which are as of now nearly non-existent, yet be small enough to deter mindless posting of pictures since most digital camera images would need to be not only scaled but also cropped to fit (I am, in general, a fanatic adherent of the art of cropping, so maybe that's just me). It's a balance thing, make it easier, but not too easy: I don't claim to have the right proportion, but at least that's some real numbers to discuss.

As for attachments, I don't have a clear opinion. I feel 50K is too little, but beyond that, it's easy to just hunger for more and more until it gets gargantuan. One way would be to limit the downloading of said attachments to registered users while simultaneously upping the filesize limit by at least an order of magnitude to 500K, which should realistically handle most processed files -- this would serve two purposes: incentivise registration even more, yet plausibly drive down bandwidth (though there's no way of telling how large a lurker factor is in play at this forum for the common user, we'd need that info from the admins).

In parting, much can be said on the upside of this forum. The user base is of course in a league all unto itself: there is no second in the world of cnc, nor a third. The stability of the forum is commendable: I have yet to experience a timeout of any form. You can, apparently, always reach it, at any time and under any load (provider or user). It has good backwards compatibility. The forum-local hosting of images and attachments is a major plus, this is actually not that common.

Many good things, and some things which could definetly be better.

[richards]

What is the purpose of this forum? To me, it is a place to further the use of the Shopbot.

Forum tools, such as bold face lettering, italic lettering, red lettering, links (such as this one to Shopbot Tools) (http://www.shopbottools.com), etc., help us in expressing an idea and to make the idea more clear to the reader.

However, shouldn't whatever we post have something to do with making a Shopbot work better, or, at the very least, have something to do with the things that we make with a Shopbot?

[myxpykalix]

With the relatively cheapness of servers and bandwidth today (5gig space+50gig bandwidth/mo=$5.00) plus forum software (vBulletin $160.00) overall is pennies in comparison.
One of the worst companies for customer support is Legacy woodworking and even they have a section for training and tutorials at:
http://legacywoodworking.com/techniques.cfm
(as low tech as it is)
That was one of the reasons I bought a Legacy (before i ever heard of a shopbot) was because i saw all the tutorials and demonstrations on the site and thought "Wow, i'll be able to make that?...cool!"
Whether you realize it or not, this is a sales tool, and all of you guys are salesmen. Your willingness to help newbies (like me) in answering questions and doing demos and tutoring people off this forum via email and phone calls all translates to direct sales for shopbot.

By the time i called shopbot to order I had asked probably 100 questions, had conversed via email and phone with several botters and had a 6 hour demo from one. So I was sold long before I picked up the phone.
This forum, in most cases, is the first place I go for "after hours tech support". They have admonished me on occassion for doing that but when you can't reach them, what else do you do? There are several contributors here who I think are just as much, if not more knowledgeable, than any shopbot employee who I would trust (like Brady).
Part of the reason we have little participation in the virtual show and tell is because it is a PITA to constantly crop/shrink/resize every picture to try to put some type of multi picture tutorial together here, then after you do all that, one click of the button here and poof its all gone if things aren't all correct. That is frustrating.
Maybe we are a bit spoiled with what we have here but frankly we paid for it in the price of the bot, we support it by being loyal shopbot "minions" and if we want something better to help express our creativity, increase our capacity for learning better techniques, and share knowledge that can only translate to more sales for shopbot (hmmm...I wonder if there are any openings in the marketing dept.?) I seem to be doing a pretty good sales job here.

I first was interested in a shopbot when i saw a demo of one on the show "Tools and Techniques" on DIY network. How is this any different? It's an advertisement and "testimonial" for the product by virtue of the participation and loyalty of the owners, to make it better only serves shopbot and the members.
(PLUNK) That was the sound of me jumping down off my soapbox.

[Forum Admin]

The image in the previous thread was deleted. Here is a cleaned up copy.

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The usual forum practice is to not edit except by special request of the poster and then only for obvious typos or errors. If a post is unsuitable, it is deleted. In this case, however, deleting the entire post just above this one would have necessitated removing all the responses. So I removed the original (?) image and left the text of the post intact.

If you wish to " post stuff like this just to make people scratch their heads and go "what the ????" ", then use another venue or your yahoo site. Not this one. However, you might think about the possible repercussions to a fellow ShopBotter who opens up this post in the workplace or on a school computer. Material such as this could result in a business or school blacklisting this forum.

[Forum Admin]

Link to post inserted into this thread -
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/show.cgi?tpc=312&post=51799#POST51799

For new search feature, try the google search on www.talkshopbot.com (http://www.talkshopbot.com).

[wcsg]

I run a board myself for the electric sign community (Invision Power Board) which I think is the most professional board out, but....You guys are wasting your time. There have been many threads before this one, I've even started one where I offered to donate time and money for a new bulletin board.

Shopbot just doesn't want to do a new one, because they just don't. There has never been a hint of upcoming change. They simply are content in shuttling everyone in a Yugo instead of Limo Bus.

You can keep talking about it until your blue in the face.

[joe]

I'm with Mike R. on this one.

Come on guys: This is the best forum I've visited and may be the best CNC Forum on the market. It's provided a wealth of information for all of us. I'm sure ittakes considerable effort from SB to keep it cleaned up and going.

I've posted a bunch of photo's, porbably too many, and compared to other forums it's a breeze. There's no need send photo's to hosting location. It's just goes direct.

Perhaps it could be tweeked a little but, come guys get out there start routing.

J
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[myxpykalix]

8237

[terryd]

Jack,

51 post per month average and thats the best you can do?

I had a business well before I had a "shopbot" and to me the business warranted the dismissal of 3 humans that thought they knew every thing to be replaced by a machine . The "bot" never complains, gets sick and always does exactly what I tell it to do; right or wrong. I love my "bot".

Henrick,
I am located in Canada and can relate to what you are saying. "Bots" were rare birds up here when I bought mine several years ago (PRT Alpha).
The exchange rate was close to $1.30 Can to the US dollar therefore the pricing was in the range where a used 'big iron machine' was possible . Having followed Ted Hall since the beginning and enjoying the simplicity of the SB software and of course this very forum which is now under attack I went with SB. I believe you will be pleased with your purchase and will be impressed by the help available from forum members; often this help will come as direct emails off forum because there is a segment of our population that view this forum as an invitation to speak even when they are out of their league..

"Articulate people don't require pictures to express thoughts. Proud people don't ask questions because they can"

Rights and privileges are not the same, thread gently....

Terry D

no apologies for being educated.

[tuck]

An upgrade would only help these boards be an easier place to communicate. There is no "attack" insinuated. I agree with Terry, pics can be very tricky to upload here. Avatars and sigs would be nice too, if only to make this place look more professional.

Bottom line? These boards ARE a selling tool for ShopBot, and an upgrade appears to be in order after all of these years.

[dray]

Terry thats great =P

It is very unfortunate that you may not learn another thing the rest of your life..

You already know it all. (Just teasing...) "you seem like a really nice guy"

Me on the other hand, I am not very educated.
but today I finished this cabinet that I built in a day on my bot. My customers loved it, I walked away feeling great!!

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[wcsg]

Make no mistake it will be said that this thread is "just repeating itself" by the admin then the admin will just lock it up, as usual.

[myxpykalix]

"Articulate people don't require pictures to express thoughts. Proud people don't ask questions because they can"

Have you ever heard the old saying:
"A picture is worth a thousand words" ?

[joe]

Jack,

I didn't mean to cause distress!

Not everyone posting on this site is a sales person or do so for the purpose of promoting the company. The only reason I post is to assist newbies or give assistance with little know techniques.

There are many CNC fellows who drop by now and again to offer suggestions. The spirit of goodwill, which the forum has promoted, is un-paralled in the CNC community.

I still associate with a dozen or so SB folks, trading techniques back and forth even though we no longer have one of their machines. I have a couple of SBers coming to the shop tomorrow and we will have a ball.

Lets get back to techno babble or something more productive.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[myxpykalix]

Joe,
You don't stress me, it's guys like you who i look to for help. I think all my comments are positive and meant to help, not meant to be an offense to anyone other than those who "drop in" on occassion to, not to offer specific help, but to make others feel that "he" is smarter than the rest of us. It would be wise to remember that they, at one time, were newbies.

[tuck]

I still think an upgrade would be nice, as well as a PINNED "Code of Conduct". I say that because it was about a year ago when I FINALLY figured out how to post pics in here, and did so with some nice shots of a few bikini-clad ladies posing with power tools as well as CNC machines. They were nothing you won't see in tool magazines, on billboards, or even, for crying out loud, at the BEACH! But someone took high offense and I was banned from these boards until I apologized to forum admin. I pointed out that there were no such posted rules against that, but no reply was made to me about that. I was a "bad boy" and deserved to be banned for my flagrant indiscretion, I suppose.

As Joe Crumley knows, I am an active poster on the Letterville forums (popular with a lot of CNC folks), where something like that would hardly get a second thought, but you can get get banned for it in here. These are very, very conservative boards, and that's fine, but it needs to be spelled out with a pinned Code of Conduct like many forums have that describe what is acceptable and what is not.

To forum admin: Upgrade these boards and pin a CoC. Why not?

[wcsg]

LOL, Mark I always did wonder what happened to you after we were trying to make "Shopbot Girl" Pin Ups

[tuck]

Yeah, Erik, I figured you would remember that! LOL!!!

[tuck]

Just to add, I did find this in the "Guidelines":

Talk ShopBot Forum Guidelines
------------------------------

-We do not allow posts that are threatening, abusive, obscene, or sexual in nature or that violate ShopBot community standards.

I still don't know where I went wrong, unless pretty girls in bathing suits is considered "sexual"??? I think they're just "pretty girls in bathing suits". :-)

[dray]

I believe forum admin is an older lady if I am not mistaken. Some older people take offence to everyday occurances because they dont get out much to see the rest of the world as they did when they were younger.

So I understand where they are coming from. But I still think that "any" forum should be modded by its own members. Not watchers or lurkers but actual members that post often, have open minds etc.

surprised this thread isnt closed yet lol

[henrik_o]

Uh, guys, what a trainwreck.

Anyway, this one goes out to Dave Hines and his excellent advice right at the top of the thread.

All of the following imho.

What's good;

Stability. Always up, always accessible. Support for an unusually large range of formatting options. No adverts, popups or inane flash banners. Thankyouthankyouthankyou. Local hosting of images and attachments. Very nice. Smooth and uncluttered visual flow (no fancy colors, signatures or, worst of all, avatars). Backwards compatibility.

What's not so good;

Formatting tags are awkward. Formatting beyond the simplest tags requires a lot of back and forth copy/paste or a helper program (thanks to Paco for the suggestion above). Viewsize v. filesize of images is disjointed, which creates unnecessary complications. Both limits are towards the lower end of what is usable. Attachment filesize limit is so low as to effectively bar almost all Partwizard files (a pw file with just a single cabinet side with two arrays of shelf holes comes in at over twice the allowable filesize) and even moderately complex .sbp files.

Suggestions;

Tags: Can not be changed due to the DiscusWare software (afaict). However, in terms of usability, the current help page->formatting is clearly intended for novice users, which is great, but hinders the experienced user who is just looking for the code for a quick copy/paste. Why not add a page with one-click access (direct link in new window, the link being placed close to the reply textfield) that has all codes listed in a straightforward manner formatted for easy copy/paste? Images: Up the allowable filesize to 100K, effective immediately. Consider upping the viewsize to 800 x 800 with a filesize of at least 150K. Attachments: Up the allowable filesize to at least 250K, effective immediately. Consider allowing downloads only to registered users (incentive to register, lower bandwidth) and upping it to 500K. Perhaps consider entering into a partnership with one of the larger filesharing sites: registered shopbot members get a free account for 1gig or whatever.

[bakerkr]

I do remember when Erik G "went down this road before" and I felt he and others made vailid points. I still very new to botting and have often depended on this forum to help educate me.
Has the forum admin ever came right out and explained why they choose not to upgrade? How big of an outcry does there need to be?

[joe]

Danny, What a beautiful piece of cabnetry. I couldn't even stain that piece in a day. Wish I could do what your doing!

Way back when; I used to post "step by step" photo's of work in progress. That way readers could not only see my fledgling struggles with router techniques, finishing foybles, and once in a while a success or two. It takes time and effort to make these post happen, and I didn't make a penny by doing so. However it proved to be a financial benefit, in the long run, as I acquired more effecient techniques from others who were willing to share. Back then we would even cut parts for one another. It was a learning, sharing process.

The larger community of ShopBot owners aren't experienced users. They come financially and technically challenged and need help. Good practical advice they can put to use. This is far beyond what any administrations could provide. That's the gold nugget here. I still get questions from botters who are expanding their techniques and need help. Glad to help.

I look back daily on finished projects and wonder why I didn't take a few snaps, knowing it would have been assistance to someone starting out. It's admitedly our lazy and thoughtless lack of posting and sharing which limits us all. Ted's not holding us back. It's up to you guys to pull together and keep the community going with good positive posts.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[dray]

no it wasnt stained in a day!!!

it took 4 days to stain!!

Building took a day.

[joe]

Still,

Wish I'd have dont it. Keep up the good work.

J.
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[jhicks]

In the spirit of the more customary "helpful and problem solving" activity most are familiar with here; consider the following.
From the photo it would appear the X/Y are reversed, damaged, or seriously corrupt codes.
Recommend deleting all corrupt parameters and virus on C drive, reloading correct software configurations and new calibration settings for proper orientation.
If problems persist, new equipment, software, and programming may be required to achieve more desireable productivity and results.