Best publications?

[harryball]

Which magazines should I subscribe to? I'm currently subscribed to a couple of wood working mags, but nothing specific (or even encompassing) to CNC's.

Robert

[steve4460]

That is a good question , I dont think there is anything out there that covers what we do with our machines .Maybe Rob Wiliams can hook us up making a DIY show about CNC's like the onse we owne ,if so I want royaltys for the idea, LOL .
I think our best resource for what to do and how to it with our bot's is this forum ,Maybe we should have some of the guys that realy know how to set up servers,websites and stuff like that set up a webpage where Shopbotters can find work and only customers that have work suitable for for our bot's can advertise.
Also it would be nice to keep it so that the avarage garage operated bot can get work for what ever skill level the operrator has .
We all know that the bot can do a lot , but I have looked around on what is available out there . There is one site that charges $1900 and brags that they are THE site for CNC contract work etc. I checked them out and there was maybe 2-3 jobs suitable to a shopbot ,and for that they expect a guy to pay that kind of money , and even then its not shure that you get the job , and you still have to pay your yearly fee.
Well I say this . There was plenty of talk around this forum to start a "USER GROUP " to band together and put our powers together to get all kinds of things like buying materials , health insurance cutters etc. What ever happend with that ?.
I know from reading this forum for a while now that there is some guys on here that have the connections and the backround in setting things like that up . What is it going to take for us to band together ?. Do we have to wait untill the chiness put us totaly out of business and we just sell things but not make them anymore ?. In the mean time we get so laisy that if the $%^&&%# hit the peverbial fan that we don't know how to do it anymore.
Well I guess I just sit on my couch and have another beer now and hope I didn't offend anybody with what I said and misspeled wrong here now .
Just my 2 cent's

Bot on

SV

[jhicks]

Stephan,A small group of Midwestern botters got together last year at our home based shop.(We've since moved to a larger faclity) to explore exactly what you refer to here as a users group. This was about the time of the chinese and worlds largest cnc capacity notes were hitting thre forum.
In short we had about 8 or 9 guys get together for a full day and evening to explore common business interests, ideas, techniques, markets, and capabilities. Kinda of like a camp but not the same and no sponsors.
In the end several of the attendees went home and I've never heard from them again. A few stay in touch and help one another out all the time.
So my conclusion in answer to your question:
What is it going to take for us to band together ?
Common goals, collaboration, time, and organization, investment in time, leadership, and $.
I think the reasons this does NOT happen are:
A high percenatge of Botters are hobbiests with day jobs.
A high % are short on time to invest if not $.
A high % are short in business skills such as sales, marketing, pricing, and making a market for their products whatever they are.
A high % are trying to improve their design and fabrication skills before jumping into something they know they are not capable of yet.
A high % are one man (or woman) shops
A high % have a great desire to learn, implement, and make products for sale but with these limitations it's not easy to overcome the barriers to sustain in any business.

Those that are already running a "successful" business or somehow sustaining, are generally pretty darn busy just keeping it going. In spite of this they are often willing to share knowlege but by the very nature of this groups "Independant" and "creative" or "Plan B" entreprenurial spirit, I feel its unlikely such a users group would gain any traction UNLESS, it was organized, supported and maintained by a factory like Shop Bot. Kinda of Like what they have tried to do with all the ideas on wizards etc but pointed more toward the business end of the equation rather than the implementation of CNC techniques and materials.
Unfortunately unless there is an economic incentive or gain, it would be charitble organization/effort which few can afford to devote many resources to.
So while we often see "Can I get that file" requests (just pointing out the generosity of botters and the open access in this community), It's usually from someone climbing UP the learning curve on a particular method, material, or just wanting to run something on their machine for presents.
It's fairly rare in any industry for folks who have worked hard to build their business and develop markets to share their "secrets of success" to the extent that they share all the secrets or jeapordize their customer base.

So whats it going to take to band together?
I think the forum is about as good as it will get. And that's pretty darned GOOD, isn't it?


Just consider life and learning this stuff if the SB forum was not there? Not a fun thought!

So as you develop your ideas, capabilities, and products, don't forget to develop those selling, pricing, marketing, and general business skills because until you do, it's a great and fun hobby.

Ask not what other botters can do for you but; what you can do for other botters.

Happy Holidays to everyone at ShopBot and the world of Botters out there.
Bot On!

[harryball]

I was just wondering what magazines you guys keep on your tables...

[bill.young]

hey Robert,

Though not specifically a CNC magazine, Make magazine (http://www.makezine.com) always has interesting things for inspiration in it.

An added bonus is that the new issue has a picture of our buddy Ed Lang in it!

Bill

[steve4460]

Hi Jerry

I agree with everything you said , yes this forum is the best . I just get so frustrated some times when I spend a couple of days on estemating a job , and then I see that the chines already have that covered for a price that I can't even buy the material, or turn the lights on in the shop . I guess in part we the consumer are to blame for that , myself included , I buy made in china too .
It shure would be nice if we had a place where cusomers can go to in order to find a botter's in there neck of the woods and post there RFQ's. I see it happening in the business section some times , but not as often as I would like to see it . So , How do we get the word out ,that there is an exellent group of guys out there with a good mashine that can do the work here instead of overseas ?.
Well thats just another 2 cents worth from MN.

Bot on
SV

[bill.young]

Hi Stephan,

That's generally the direction we're trying to take the Project Wizard. There's a posting with a little bit of information on the Project Wizard blog (http://projectwizard.blogspot.com/)

Bill

[rcnewcomb]

I wish "Fine Woodworking" would come out with a "Fine Woodworking - CNC Edition". Do you hear that Tuanton Press???

[terryd]

Jerry, I agree with what you about the "botter" demographics. What I do note was the extreme difference in skill levels and the value placed on those skills. I am sometime erked when I see people asking others to do what I would call their "work". It took me weeks and $thousands to acquire the ability to run my machine and I can't help feeling that some botters will not or can't "pay their dues". In my case the shopbot is another tool that I use to produce finished goods. I support this forum and to be truthful it is one of the contributing factors in my decision to by a CNC. BUT it doesnt replace the fact that a business must have a product to sell to make money regardless how it is made. That business is ultimately YOU.

Stephan, Quote,quote,quote,I spend 30 hours a week quoting.I get really pissed with the tire kickers but I accept the fact that 10-15% of these quotes come to be jobs, therefore if I can do 100 quotes a week then its going to be a good week.

Robert, The magazines I keep on the table are Wooden Boat so that I can see the way to escape the rat race. Playboy so that I can remember why I got married and Popular Science so that I will have something to talk about with my grandkids. And Forbes to remind me of why I do what I do now instead of my "career".

Happy Thanksgiving to my southern brethen,

TerryD

[harryball]

"a business must have a product to sell to make money" I agree 100%. This simple truth is often overlooked. To go with that I would add a successful business must find a need a fill it. Don't create a solution then go hunt for a problem.

"Quote, quote, quote... tire kickers" Tire kickers don't bother me so much as rude and arrogant @#$@ that you take time with on the phone, answer questions then you quote them "our single chamber bat house is $70.00" and before you finish they reply "WHAT! $70, that's outrageous, you're out of your mind if you think anyone would pay that for a bat box! I can make 20 for that price, I just didn't want to mess with it" Unfortunately that happened just this past Friday. I tend to get angry quickly on those calls,

My reply was calm and sincere (sounding)... "thank you for the advice, your ability to access the value of our bat houses without ever seeing one is uncanny and a skill that I wish I had. It's sad we won't be able to sell anymore. Oh, wait, I tell you what, how about building our bat houses for us? I'll pay you double what you stated, I'll give you $140.00 for 20 of them. You just have to build them to our design and specs, but that should be a snap for someone with your skill."

long pause... "huh?, what do you mean?"

"Well, I'll pay you to build our houses for us, at double the price you quoted you should make a killing. We sell about 20 to 30 a month now but with your new pricing we should easily sell a few hundred. I've been looking for someone to outsource to, where should I send the specs so you can get started?"

"um... well I wasn't looking to build bat houses for anyone, just thought I'd buy one."

"I know, but you said our price wasn't fair and told me you could build 20 of my houses for $70, I offered you double that, that should be a deal!"

"well, umm... I don't know what your houses look like, how much material is in them, how big are they?"

LOL... I don't know if they guy ever figured out for sure that I was being sarcastic with him. He ended up asking for a catalog in the mail.

Anyway, sorry for the long ramble.

Robert

[thecustomsignshop]

I signed up for a news letter from CNC Zone. Not bad.

www.cnczone.com (http://www.cnczone.com)

[bleeth]

A good trade mag you can get free is CWB (Custom Woodworking Business) It has an emphasis on smaller companies in a good niche and sound business advise.

www.cwbmagazine.com (http://www.cwbmagazine.com)

[jhicks]

Terry, I couldn't get your 100 quotes a week comment out of my head. It strikes me that a 15% hit ratio seems quite low and perhaps is a message in itself. IF you have created adequate demand and market presence to receive 100 quotes a week, you have done a lot right to inform the market of your capability.
On the other hand if you are only expecting/closing 15% that's a lot of work that's being missed for some reason.
Perhaps qualifying the opportunity before quoting it would help increase your close rate. Perhaps a more indepth dialog with the customer before quoting a price would help reduce time and increase closure rate.
Perhaps the requestors feel your price is too low and therefore not credible.
A common rule used by industrial buyers is get 3 quotes, throw away the high and the low, then use the mid priced source.
Where are you in the buyers mind? High or low?
Don't assume your always too high but more importantly it might guide you and your pricing formulas to get some feedback from those other 85 missed opportunities to dial in exactly why you lost them.
If all that time is wasted by quoting and missing,then there is a message being sent by customers which you may be better off understanding to improve the relationships, understand their budget goals, or why they are selecting another source.
We try to ask for a budget or target or give them a ballpark based on our experience before ever quoting, then call back with the ballpark before putting pen to paper and get some verbal feedback to see IF we can make it work or walk away.
Best of luck.

[myxpykalix]

Seems to me i recall Terry saying he charges $180.00/hr depending on where he is maybe thats the problem. You might get that in california but not in missourri.

[wcsg]

$180 an hour? I'm in Cali, I wish I could get that. Oh wait he's in Canada, I don't know what the currency exchange is but he might get that

[bleeth]

Stephen: I understand the need to "crank out" quotes to score your percentages and the challenges that entails when you are running a small shop and need to spend floor time as well. It is one of the biggest challenges facing an owner who is trying to grow. I also concur with the concept that it is better to get fewer jobs that have appropriate profit margins in them. The biggest challenge is in accepting to quote jobs in which you have an increased percentage of attainment. The reason any purchaser will choose to deal with a local shop in today's market is custom manufacturing and quicker personalized service. When you are marketing stand firm that you will not be the cheapest available in the short run, but your service and ability to handle the particular jobs makes your company more economical overall. If you are going after business to business product sales identify your favorite niche and concentrate on going after only those clients who can use those services. Examples may be 3-d carvings on panels that are custom designed, and if you lack the software or the expertise you can always use a 3-d design service that doesn't do machining like James Booth, Or carved signs for shops in your area that only do vinyl currently. When you make those kind of businesses your clients, they keep coming back as they use your demos and pricing structure in their bids. Custom carved entry doors through building suppliers is a fast growing niche that is made for botters. I bet you would have no problems getting a local stock supplier to display a couple of yours if you made some nice samples. In your neck of the woods I would probably carve wildlife panels and demo them to Design/build homebuilders, architects, and interior designers. And don't be afraid to price them right.

Dave

[steve4460]

Hi Dave

Now this is again a very good example why to buy a shopbot . The support that is given here is something I haven't seen any where , and I checked around before I bought this exellent machine . It must be the nice blue color of the bot.
Like Bill said at the MN camp " Value added" is the way to go , and in the mean time qoute ,qoute, qoute and then qoute some more at least that way you get the practice in figuring out that part .
Now if we can get the word out a little more so that more people find us here , and post there RFQ's so that shopbotter's all over have another source to get potntial customers . That would be cool . From what I have seen is that the chances are that there is a shopbot near you , and with a little more advertising there might be enough work for everybody to go around . I sell stuff on ebay frequently , and I think that if shopbot dosen't have a problem with it then I will start mentioning the "looking for shopbot owner" in some of my listings that are realated to wood working .Who know they might sell a bot or two that way too . The point is maybe some of you could do the same ,and that way open up a whole nother way to get some work .
Well anyway keep the blue side up and Bot on

SV

[terryd]

Jerry, as a reply
I spent years struggling to compete against the other 5 shops within 2 miles...then one day it dawned on me why I went into business in the first place..On of my keystones is that something is worth what some one will pay you for it... and the other is my products should reflect my values... I to this day refuse to make melamine cabinets.... this is not to say that I dont use melamine in my cabinets, I dont make melamine cabinets... This lets the customers know I don't produce what you can buy at a HomeDespot. The hardware is always the best available from Mepla or others like Blum, the drawers are always dovetail maple etc.... The second thing I did was upgrade my clientele from subdivision people boxes to custom homes. Two kitchens of identical size and features People box $5000 melamine, custom home Prefinished maple ply $22000. Difference in material cost $1700. difference in PROFIT $10,000.
Getting back to the 100 quotes. Without being rude I tell 50% of them to go elsewhere because they don't fit the profile of MY customers. 25% are builders looking for someone to float their operations by having me supply cabs then taking 120 days to pay... I am not a bank.. The balance are competing for the time I have available. This is where the mix of work can make or break you.Too many large jobs with deadlines can lead to material waste , overtime and detail changes being missed until installation time. A nice mix of small, large , commercial and residential keeps the guys interest and busy..I actually spend most of my time quoting these jobs and as much as I would love to do some just for the "bragging rights" if it doesnt do the numbers it doesnt come in the door.
Jack, I know that $180 per hour sounds like a lot of money but try shelling out $6000 a week in payroll. It can actually make you choke. You look at the account and it has $10,000 yehaaa Im rich... Oh yeah pay the guys, not bad still have 4, pay the lumber suppliers i still got 2, the hardware bill i still got 1 and fuel up the trucks and change the oil.... 80 hours and 7 days for $300 bucks clear..God I love being my own boss.
Robert, the next time just ask them to hold for a moment and hang up. I have one guy who insisted that he was right and so on, quite rude really so I tracked him down and knocked on his door at seven the next morning...He changed his tune, quick. The customer is not always right, you appear to offer a good product for a fair value therefore you have nothing to explain. Don't waste time with them, you have millions of great little insect eaters to house, get on with it man, do your duty and I for one salute you.
Eric, its the peso north the currency we use. Actually the exchange rate is actually putting a dent in my biz in NewYork/LongIsland but should make my next "bot" cheaper as well as going to Carolinas to pick it up.
Sorry for the rant guys but its Monday and I already want to knock off for the week....

'a mad botter'

TerryD

[harryball]

Terry,

Thanks for the encouraging words. We make a highly niche market item and you really have to work from the inside. I've found bat loving people like to buy bat houses from bat lovers. I've been working hard to keep my focus and use my skills to promote bat habitats and education.

Sometimes... I panic when I don't get as many orders as I think I should and take jobs off focus or feel like I need to pursue other business options. Then orders roll in and here I am trying to cut 50 widgets I couldn't give a rats * about instead of building more bat houses.

I enjoy so much and see a tremendous amount of potential, but I need to do a few things...
1) focus on habitat for bats related products and apply my creativity there
2) feel free to enjoy doing other things I want to do (entertainment center for the kids, Christmas gifts etc...) but "after hours"
3) Remember to include my family and take time to enjoy life. That's the whole purpose I'm sitting here in the first place instead of back on a January to December corporate job. I was actually called out on Christmas eve once and missed Christmas morning... and for what?
4) Pray and trust daily, first thing in the morning.

It's interesting how I repeat myself... I'm happy and content, focused, making bat stuff... orders slow and I'm OK but I think "I should find something to fill in with, do xyz etc..." then I, ME, MYSELF... go and start trying to get work and the stress always starts. I get frustrated, rushed, swamped... and I NEVER end up making significantly more money. Then I get back on focus and things calm down, I do my little deal, teach bat workshops... almost, just almost start to enjoy life again and I try to make it more complicated all over again.

We are Habitat For Bats, not Habitat For Bats except on slow days when we make cabinets and widgets.

I'm rambling again, but maybe someone can glean something of value out of it and avoid my mistakes.

I'm going to purge my shop of "other work" ASAP and not do it again (really, this time I mean it). If I get the urge to carve something... I'll make a new bat plaque and put it in the catalog.

I just glanced at my "new bat products to prototype but haven't gotten around to it yet" and I have 12 things, 5 of which are direct requests or suggestions from other bat folk.

Geezze... am I that brain fried?

(my wife nods her head yes reading over my shoulder)

Robert

[jhicks]

Robert, GREAT post and good for you! The basic idea is "Stick to your knitting" and it seems you are on board with that. Find your passion, develop a nich, get good at it, develop a reputation for it, and move forward from there.
SO, your thought to make more, better, or neater BAT houses or complimentary items is the genius needed to make all that is fun & rewarding profitable enough to contine your persuit of happiness and independance.
Who could ask for more?
I'll be thinking about bat accessories for you but the one that comes to mind is...
We have a bat house hanging up high on the south(warm) side of our brick Chimney (rarely used fireplace except for Christmas) The one thing you might consider is a Bat attractor if you can devise such a thing.
Kind of like fishing lures. Yes they work but what they are really designed for is to catch fishermen.
Our bat house is unoccupied after 2 summers so something is missing and Bats are in the area so we would love to have them in residence and help with the summer mosquitos.

[Brady Watson]

Robert,
Thanks for posting...keep in mind that what you are experiencing is NORMAL!!! This is generally how things go. I felt (and sometimes still do, but I catch myself) the same things that you wrote about. You sound like you have all of the basic elements of success, but you somehow don't fully believe that you can get paid to do what you love or you are waiting for something...I could be wrong, but that's just what I get from reading your post.

I have discovered a few thruths, formulas and 'touchstone' ideas & thoughts that push me in the direction I need to go. Here are a few of those thoughts & ideas that pick me up and give me the confidence to push on:

1) There is ALWAYS room for the best
2) The only difference between champ and chump is 'U'. You are the biggest factor in your business' success.
3) NEVER, EVER 2nd guess yourself. Never!
4) 'Why me?' could just as easily be 'Why NOT me?'
5) Visualize, feel, smell, taste what you want for yourself EVERY day. Your mind is just as effective as a success striving tool as it is a failure striving tool.
6) Remove the weeds from the garden of your mind that no longer serve you. When doubts crop up, cancel them out immediately and stamp the thought with a big red X. "Where not going there today. Thanks for sharing." See #3
7) HOW you get to your goal doesn't matter. Just envision your goal. Life has a twisted way of filling in the gaps.
8) KNOW that your dream will be fulfilled for a FACT.
9) When your mind takes you into a 'bad neighborhood' because sales are down or orders are low, instead of feeding it with more (played out) bad feelings, transform it into something positive, like: Instead of there not being any orders and things are dead slow, your perspective *could* be that you have generated a vacuum...and it seems that the universe abhors a vacuum and quickly fills it up. Notice how every horizontal (workbench, table etc) space in your shop quickly gets filled up with stuff...Imagine the same thing with your bank account, bathouse sales and other things you desire.
10) People who are 10X more successful than you are not 10X smarter than you. They just have BIGGER dreams!
11) There is no growth or learning without chaos.

These are just a few things that pull me along and keep me from getting 'stuck' when business gets slow. Nobody ever addresses these things when it comes to business, so I thought I would add my perspective. I'm sure that some of these ideas seem strange, but I can attest to the fact that they really do work. Everything that I have achieved or built has come from using these basic principles. I came to the conclusion that conventional wisdom is almost always wrong & that I was tired of the up & down see-saw/rollercoaster of emotions that I felt while going thru my business week...That way surely would have driven me nuts (you mean you're not??!)
Successful people don't beat themselves down...they tell their brain to stuff it when it comes up with things that are counterproductive to moving forward and they go back to their dreams as a reference. If you keep envisioning your dreams and goals when the 'nasties' crop up, the closer you get to achieving your goal. The whole process is about grooming your brain to think the right thoughts to get you where you need to be. This is the biggest factor in the success of your business...your brain.


-B

[matt_r]

Damn Brady, when do the motivational seminars start?? (tic). :-)

Very good stuff. 100% agree with your post.

Good things for all of us to remember - not just in Shopbotting, but in life too.

-Matt

[rcnewcomb]

I think Jerry and Brady should do a motivational tag-team at the next Jamboree.

[billp]

Jerry/Robert,
In my web wanderings I came across THIS Gizmo which might work for the both of you;
http://www.econvergence.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=econvergence&Ca tegory_Code=1

[harryball]

“but you somehow don't fully believe that you can get paid to do what you love or you are waiting for something."

Brady,

I hate to say it, but you hit the nail on the head... my wife didn't tell you that did she? :-)

After exiting the corporate world in which I was enslaved I went to Lee Hecht Harrison. Right off the bat (or did the bat come later? ;-) the lady said something laughable "You deserve to enjoy working" huh? what? I heard people could enjoy work (lucky souls) but you DESERVE to enjoy work... what kind of carp talk is that?

It never occurred me to that work was something to enjoy. I can't explain when or how things went like they did (yet) but that's where I'd been for 20 years. I know when I made the decision to go to Georgia Tech and what to pursue and it was all based on wrong reasoning. I enjoyed wood working then, I made furniture and so forth... I actually even wrote poetry (don't tell anyone) sang (placed 2nd in the state), won events for public speaking, directed a choir... even found time to pick up a guitar. I did all sorts of artsy stuff... nothing was off limits, if it was there, I'd try it. But all of it was impractical, play stuff and without focus... a serious career is work and full of sacrifices, you MUST CHOOSE SOMETHING... and I couldn't choose so I picked something that looked interesting and I knew would make money.

Let's get a few thing clear after 20 years...
1) I DO NOT HAVE TO CHOOSE! I can enjoy doing different things and set up income streams. Based around a theme... I LOVE doing this stuff, I get to help the environment, create tacky sayings, create tacky products, airbrush, build, explore caves, travel, teach kids, talk to people, help animals. My career is being me.

2) You can enjoy making a living. Enjoy and Work are not mutually exclusive.

3) My life choices so far have cost me a great deal in health and well being. I could be bitter but I choose to believe it has made me who I am which is who I am supposed to be.

4) I DO NOT have to sell my soul to be happy, owning a 250k boat and 130k car did not make me happy... I was spending my life as a slave to debt, false economy, pride and so on. I could "afford" these things with my salary but life was not fulfilling.

5) It doesn't matter what everyone else may think. Maybe I am nuts, but I can't go back to that world I was in, that'd be a death sentence. I've had people ask how I can do what I do with the potential that I have... what they are saying is "how can you throw away your potential like this?" well... I have very little hair and what I do have is gray (I'm less than 40), stress has added 10 years to me, I had my first heart "event" at age 32 (some long word I don't remember, basically a stress induced heart attack) I have burned my body out... missed part of my kids growing up... and for what? I'd get in your car and drive to work, leave before light, get home after dark... I was on call 15 years for 24/7/365, I'd get called out at all hours for any length of time.

I don't expect life to be stress free... but I do want to enjoy what I'm doing. Do I deserve that much?

Robert

[billp]

"Nothing is really work, unless you would rather be doing something else" -James M. Barrie (The author of Peter Pan)

[Brady Watson]

Bill's got it right


Robert,
Outside validation is over-rated. A word to the wise is sufficient...

The stress of the corporate world is what lead me to look for a Plan B...With hell bent intentions of escaping...somehow...someway..Gotta get out of here!!! It really was a life or death decision for me to get out of exactly what you decribe.

You might be nuts, Robert...welcome to the club! LOL! Nah...quite the contrary my friend. The fact that you have/had the realizations that you did has extended your time with your family, and now you are doing what you love doing. What else is there? Really? Doing what you love is wealth beyond compare. Don't believe me? Take a look at the poor saps that return to bondage every day. I didn't realize just how twisted that was until I was out of it for a while...Give yourself a pat on the back for making the decision to be lead dog...It seems to fit you well.

Starting out, I took on jobs that I really didn't want to do, but quickly narrowed things down & focused on niche markets. I chose several different interests that I had (race cars, metaphysical/healing products, furniture making, carpentry, mold making, 3D work etc) and focused on how I could make products or offer services to those groups. What it did was give me a 'mutual fund' of markets that kept me busy all of the time. When one thing slowed down, another picked up. Sometimes it was really busy, but it kept the ball rolling. If you focus on a few niche products/services that are interesting to you, then you are always playing & increasing your overall potential in the business. I set aside 'funny money' for product research & development...yes even a one-man band like me has an R&D dept. This lets me play with new and exciting things that I think might either aid production or become new products...new product development comes out of doing what you enjoy doing & keeping an ear out for new possibilites and how your skills interface with that idea.

Product development (for those lurking) does not mean bruising your brain thinking up the 'right' thing to sell. This is akin to what Robert pointed out with choosing a career in the 1st place...I went to school for aquaculture (fish farming)...look at me now! I didn't truly love that stuff...it SOUNDED like the right thing...Nobody told me that it was OK to get paid to play...and furthermore, I felt guilty at the idea of getting paid to play, as if it was one of the 7 deadly sins or something...Turns out it was just the 'matrix' pulling me back in! LOL! Seriously though...the guilt subsides real quick when the dollars start rolling in


-B

[joewino]

If you do what you love to do you will never have to work a day in your life.

I've been in the sign business for over 40 years and have never gone to work.

[jhicks]

Nothing like a motivational message or two with morning coffee.
Thanks to all for the words of wisdom.
I have to remind myself occasionally that when one is at their greatest point of frustration, they are closest to the solution.
Happy holidays

[terryd]

Robert, Sounds like you and I have the same past. Unlike you I didn't leave all at once because I really did like the money. It came home to me on day when I realized that I was rushing through things at 200 mph to get the jobs done so that I could have some time with my family and myself. It finally dawned upon me when stuck in the Detroit airport for another snow cancellation; I was rushing through my life so that at the end I could have both time and money to do as I wanted. Time is irreplaceable and moments are the memories of your life. Money is just a byproduct of action.. I realized with the death of a good friend that death was death. He died owing well over a 3/4 million dollars but man the stories he had... remember the time we did this....remeber the time we did that....and so on he went until he finally expired. Honestly, I could not remember these times because I never took the time to have these moments. These moments are in a collection commonly called a life. In my book my buddy was a success and I am still trying to get there. For some reason doing business is easier for me that having a life, but man am I trying hard to get where you are........In summary buddy you are already a success, your just too chicken to accept it..

TerryD