Which 'Bot would you buy?

[dubliner]

OK, here goes ~ I dont have an unlimited budget but am considering a 60x120 Alpha(new model) with a spindle, or router. I would eventually like to make some cool carved large doors, signs & architectural millwork & cabinets. I'm not very experienced with CAD or 3D & am functional on the computer. I'm going to put the 'Bot in a room 10 x 20 that is apx 20 ft way from where I would probably have the computer/office, or would a "desk" on the exterior of the room be better. If you were able to, how would you best spend $20K to have the "Ultimate" set up & layout for that price. Thanks for all your advice over the year, BTW, and thanks for this too ~ Neville

[jamesgilliam]

Neville, If I was just starting out I would go with the 60x120. I use alot of Baltic Birch which I have to rip down to 48" to fit my PRT96. If I had the larger table I could set up two sheets and let it run. As far as spindle/vs/router I think I would stick with the router. Both of my PC routers were bought used from the PC repair store in Houston and were less than $250 each. There are quiter routers that will do the job as well, and about the same price range as the PC. My machine computer is about three feet from the end of the bot now, which will change in the new shop to being in my office, about 15 feet away then, but where I can see what is happening on the machine with just a quick glance out the window.

[myxpykalix]

I can't advise you on models (there is a new one out soon) so you might want to check on that first however if i was you i'd reloacte your computer to a spot close to the bot. The reason is that when you are setting material up on the table you have to constantly nudge, look, nudge, look to get your router to your starting point and i wouldn't want to have to run back and forth 15 ft each time. Also when you set the file up for cutting you have to go thru a certain order of startups and button pushes. If you want to stop the file hittting the spacebar will allow you to resume the file, hitting the emergency stop
won't (I don't think). In any event having the computer at the machine is the way to go. I bought a laptop and take it back and forth out to the shop because i didn't want to leave it in the cold or dusty shop.
Besides the bot there are other addon things you will need 1)a good vac table system...2 fein's and pvc pipe and connectors, valves, ect run about $1,000.
2) Good software to create with. Others could be better advisors on that.

[terryd]

Neville, If you're going to cut sheet stock then you will herniate your self trying to load the material onto the 'bot' in such a small work area.An extra 5 feet of length will make a world of difference in practicality. Stick with the router until you have worked your way up the learning curve with the machine.One less variable. It takes time, mistakes and practice like everything else in life. Computers. buy the fastest processor speed machine that you can afford and dedicate it to the 'bot' by removing everything except Windows and the shopbot software.This computer should be enclosed and dust tight. Then get a second machine for the office. When buying the bot do get the z plate and the proxy sensors. As for software Partwizard from Shopbot and the trio of programs from Vectric will allow you to do everything except actually design in 3-D for about $900. I personally would suggest that you buy about 20 sheets of various thicknesses MDF and a large handful of bits and cut anything you can find until you run out of bits and material. Don't try to optimize or create the perfect product but do observe the "cause and effect" of each of your attempts and then come to the forum with solid questions. If you try, we'll help..Right guys?

[dubliner]

To clarify, the 10 x 20 room will have a 6 foot sliding door on the 10 ft end, so I would be moving sheets on a cart that could roll to the end of the table. the room is part of a larger workshop 40X40 and I was planning on it containing noise & dust. would you still advise against it?

[terryd]

Neville, what you have in mind should work great. I would however try to keep the 'bot' computer as close as possible to the control box for the machine. The shorter the cable the better. When I had my bot in a room I had a ventilation fan exhausting air from the room to the out of doors. This way any dust not captured by the dust collection system was expelled from the building due to the negative pressure being created. Dust actually went into the room instead of out. I eventually stopped using the room because it was a royal pain, ate up time and the enviroment that I was working to preserving was being polluted by all the other equipment in the shop. I will however repeat myself in regards to what I said about the MDF and bits......cut,cut,cut,screw up, screw up cut, cut and learn..I developed a habit over the last 20+ years of having a notebook and pen and writing things down like you would in a diary. Its worth the $2 and the discipline. I still reread the notes whenever I approach a new venture. Just ask yourself a simple question like what vacuum table do I need. You do not know until you have enough hands on experience and have actually seen parts move and break bits. Until you know what you are doing how can you know what you need? The only way to "know" is to do so I would be so bold to suggest a $1000 worth of MDF and bits is move valuable to you than a vacuum table at this point. With the 'bot' software from Vectric, proxy switches, z-zero plate, MDF, bits and a dust collector you can begin learning for about $16000. Leave the rest in the bank until you know what you need...

My 2 cents worth.

TerryD

[ryan_slaback]

Jack, if you are constantly nudging to get your bit lined up I highly highly suggest getting a proximity switch setup. With that you can do a c2 command which finds the switches and then backs off a set amount (you set it). This gives you an accurate, repeatable 0,0 point. When I set mine up I put in a 60 degree V bit and carved a line from 0,0 to 92,0 and one from 0,0 to 0,46. Now whenever one of my students wants to set up their part, they simply have to line it up with the engraved axes and home the machine. They get a perfect carving every time.

[minnlaker]

Neville, I am in the same boat as you, I am looking at purchasing the new model(PRS). I plan on going to the class in February in Durham. Any final questions I have I hope to get answered at the class. My purchase will be in February. In the mean time I have been reading this forum nonstop. Everything Jack, Terry, James, and JoAnn said above reassured me of what I have been thinking. I do plan on building my own table since I plan on having an indexer (recessed) running along side of the "X" rail. The only way to do this is to build your own. Jack I know you have built your own table. My one question is with the new model(PRS). The new PRS comes standard with an 8 inch Z. I don't see a need to goto the 16 inch Z since the 8 inch Z will ride easily over the top of my indexer. Does anyone see any reason for me and Neville to consider the 16 inch Z.

[patricktoomey]

Chuck, one reason I can see to get the 16" Z is for indexer work. I have an indexer with a 6" Z currently and I desperately need to upgrade to a larger Z. I was going to go with the PRT upgrade to 12" but now I'm waiting to see what the options will be to upgrade my rails, gantry and Y car to the PRS style and get a 16" Z that way.

[minnlaker]

Patrick, the way I will have my table built, I will have the capabitiy to turn 12" diameter stock. That is plenty for my needs. My table is similar to Wayne Locke's. By the way, thanks Wayne for your e-mail of your prints. Other then the indexer, any other reason to have a Z in excess of 8".

[ryan_slaback]

Chuck, I have a 6 inch Z. I also have an adapter that is a drill chuck so that I can put bradpoints in the router to drill odd size holes (13/64 for example) That eats up about 2 and a half inches and the bit takes another 2. That doesn't leave me with my travel room. Luckily when I did this project I was only drilling 1/4" hardboard. Something to think about...

[minnlaker]

Thanks Ryan

[patricktoomey]

For spindle and traditional column turning the dropped table would be enough. I have seen other people on the forum doing the same thing. Where I'm getting into trouble is that I'm starting to do more unusual pieces like large corbels and intricate columns where the difference from the highest point of the carving to the lowest point may be 8-10 inches, in other words, I'm carving well below the centerline of the spindle at some points. This creates an issue with travel that is severely limiting me. My case is pretty unusual though and most people are not doing this sort of work.

[minnlaker]

Patrick, I didn't think about corbels. On the new PSR(standard) the limitation for a corbel would be approximately 8 inches.

New question: Is there a big difference between the 25:1 stepper motor for the indexer versus the 10:1 motor.

[myxpykalix]

Ryan, I am fairly new user and have a 5x10 table with an indexer. I didn't think i could set my 0,0 like that (I have prox switches) because i have the indexer valley.

[ryan_slaback]

jack, I don't see why not. The machine doesn't care much what you set the values too to zero out. In so far as a second origin (for the indexer) I have somewhat the same problem in that when I want to cut a full sheet my engraved axes are too far in. I simply align the sheet 4 inches back from the axes (there is another line engraved here) and do a c2 and then move to 0,-4 and sero the y position. I do highly recommend getting something worked out with prox switches. It would have solved the plaque problem you posted today too. I bet if you posted some pics of your setup, I (or someone else) could give you a hand on using your prox switches to set an origin.

[myxpykalix]

After i get thru this "crisis" I will take some pics and see about setting the 0,0 to the prox switches although on the few occassions i have drove the carriage to/past the prox switches it was not an immediate stop! of the carriage it would seem to me that wouldn't be a precise way to stop it but again I don't know.

[ryan_slaback]

Jack, the homing routine using prox switches, checks there location twice. Once at jog speed and then once much slower. The slower speed pins down the point much more accurately. Plus with using the same routine over and over if there is any error, which I am sure there is, it is a repeatable error and thus not a problem.

[dubliner]

OK, so it would seem that a PRS alpha 60x120, with extended Z for future indexer might be the ticket. With a PC router initially, and the various accessories, e.g. Fein vacs to start... OK Ladies & gents ~ Votes please - TIA Neville