Setting up a good XY zero point, suggestions?

[henrik_o]

Hi all,

Everything moving along fine, I've been wondering about the best way to set up a repeatable XY zero point.

I'm thinking both the physical stops and the programmatical zero, how have you gone about it?

[ed_lang]

I use the prox switches on my machine. They are mounted beyond the 0,0 in the negative direction. The setup program will calculate the offset needed to bring the machine right to the location you wish the 0,0 point to be. In my case, the corner of the bed.

My stop blocks are set further negative from the prox switches by a little bit.

When I cut, I zero the machine with the prox switches and then measure to the edge of the material. I then move the machine to that location and when I cut, I set the software to do a 2D offset. I do not zero in different places all over the table like I have heard of others doing. I always want to be able to hit the mark again if needed. By using the prox switches, which do not move, I have a solid reference to start from.

Hope this helps.

ed

[harryball]

I use the electronic limit switches. I loaded a V bit so I could get a good pointer and aligned it with the exact corner of my spoilboard. I took some time and got it very close then reset X,Y to 0,0. After that I used the keyboard commmand to move until the limit switch stopped it.

>> IMPORTANT, test this before slamming into the stops. For some reason my limit switches no longer work in keyboard mode when I loaded 3.5.3. It does work in v.27. I haven't addressed this issue and figure by the time I get around to it being an issue for me another version may be out.

Anyway, I used this method and recorded the negative values on an average of 5 or 6 tries for X and Y. I put those values into the C:\SBParts\Custom\my_variables.sbc for the entries &my_XYzeroOffsetX and &my_XYzeroOffsetY.

Now when you run C3 on the custom commands it will home X and Y using the limit switches. It is very accurate in my case, I've had no trouble rezeroing the tool at any time.

I always rezero to that point then move the XY where I want it and rezero manually writing down the required offset. So long as I always verify and make any adjustments when I apply a new spoilboard it should always come out true.

Robert

[ed_lang]

Robert, and others

I did the exact same thing as far as calculating the offset for the C3 program..... that is until I found the setup program that will do all of that for you!

Move the machine to where you want the 0,0 point to be and the software will figure it out and store the needed values. Quicker for me than the calculator and opening Notepad to edit the file.

just FYI.

ed

[harryball]

Ed has a good point. If I run a file once or twice and just want to run it somewhere else on the table due to material shape or holddown jig etc... I move the head where I want it, write those numbers down and run with offset.

However, I have a file that runs over and over and the 0,0 point depends on which of 3 positions I'm using on my vac jig. Position 1 is at true 0,0, position 2 is at 0,12 and 3 is at 0,24. I tend to manually move Y to 12 and rezero Y. Then I run the file and don't have to think about running with offset. I vcarved the offsets into the jig itself so I don't forget them. The jig is always aligned on the spoilboard to 0,0.

Whichever method you use it is important to have a known position you can return to (0,0 from the prox switches) and you record any offsets you intend to use so you can return to them later.

Robert

[harryball]

I didn't know it would do that Ed, I'll have to check it out.

LOL, yet another example of my aging ways. When I was younger if there was a "right" way or an "easier" way it must be done that way. Now that I'm older I find so long as it gets done I really don't care. Toilet paper over or under, whichever. I have no problem leaving a 3-way switch in the up position when the light is off. I realize I could take a minute and correct the 1/4" error in my mitersaw stopblock... but then I know it's 1/4" so why bother, it would probably just confuse me anyway :-)

Robert

[bill.young]

Don't worry Robert. When you set up your prox switches using the Setup Tool, one of the options lets you manually enter the offset values. Just select the "I like doing things the hard way" option.

[fleinbach]

I use prox switches to set my 0,0 posision. Once I established where I wanted my 0,0 I trimmed my spoilboard edge so that the corner of the spoil board is the 0,0 posisin. Then it is a simple matter to posision the corner of my sheet in alignment with the corner of the spoil board.

[srwtlc]

Along with setting up the table base zero as Ed and Robert have already stated, I've been using a touch off plate/block that serves as a inside/outside corner finder or X & Y zeroing tool.

It's just a two layer block that has some aluminum plate on two sides that is alligator clipped to the same input line as the Z plate when needed. With both layers together, it works on inside corners of jigs etc. When taken apart to one layer, it works on outside corners of blanks etc. because the plates extend below the top block and hook on the edge.


8397
8398

8399

When I want to take the guess work out of finding a corner (table, jig, or blank), instead of trying to eyeball a v-bit, I use this block and a modified Z zero routine that takes into account the diameter of the tool and sets X & Y to zero.

The file is set up to be called from the "Custom Cut" menu.


X_Y zero block routine

8395 (2.9 k)

For those of you that use jigs that are in various locations on your table as I do, I've been using sort of "Work Offset" system that has been working well for me. It will save or take you to up to four different offset locations or take you back to table base. I have it set up to work with one of the "Custom Cut" numbers (C9). If I have located a jig (with the aforementioned corner block) or want to go to a previously saved location, the routine will save or take you to the chosen location.

If anyone would like to try the routine, download and place the "Work Offsets" folder in the C:\SBparts folder and the "Custom9.sbc" file in the C:\SBparts\Custom folder (If you already have a Custom9.sbc file, you'll have to change it to another number). Try it out and give me some feedback. I used Mach3 for some time and I really got used to using the work offset system so I wanted something similar. I figured that four locations was enough for me, but more can be added if so desired.

Just home the machine, jog to another spot, run the file and choose to save the current location. Save a few others and then choose to go to one or the other and it should take you there and zero the X & Y.


Work Offsets

8396 (6.2 k)

Included in the zip file are two new zeroing files that I received from Ted at ShopBot that when run, zero the table base coordinates. Without them, the offset system won't work properly. I was told that these new zero files will be included in the next release. I've been using them since early July with no problems. Rename or copy the old ones just in case and then rename these.

Just a note, it currently does nothing with the Z axis location. I just rezero the Z when I go to another location, but it could be implemented as well.

Scott

[billp]

Henrik,
Here are some shots I have shown at a few Camps. The guys from Interior Dimensions in California created an oversized spoil board, and then used their machine to create .25" grooves in both the X and Y axes. They then filled those grooves with .25" strips of MDF, but left the "corner"open.
Using a V bit they then determined the actual 0,0 point of that corner and set their proximity switches to that position. They now have the ability to drop a sheet of material onto the table and the corner will always match up with their designated 0,0 position.
If they have to make any cuts from either side it's no big deal to cut through the MDF border, and then simply replace it with a new strip...
PS- The "outer groove"you see in the second picture was their test run to determine that their machine was giving them an accurate 90 degree 'home'corner position...

8400

8401

[harryball]

Now THAT is interesting... thanks for posting this Bill. I can see my next spoil board is going to be a little different.

Robert

[knight_toolworks]

I make custom xz zero files. I just copy the main one name it so I know what it is. Then I zero noremally move to where I want home to be open up the file and put in where you want the machine to go when it is done zero’ing on the prox switches. Then on the end I have z2 and that place is easy to re xero on.
I don’t have one of the files here but I will get one from work. It is great for when you have several places you use as home with different jigs.

[rhfurniture]

Hi,
For something completely different, I don't bother with any of that stuff. I even bought some prox switches that are still on the shelf. I have filed square a couple of rail ends. To check zero I run my machine to 400,400 check and adjust the distance from carriage to the rail ends (one is 440 dead, the other 350 dead), VA 400,400. Takes less than 1/2 minute, accurate to 1/10th mm, can do it anywhere on the table with a little mental arithmetic, never needs troubleshooting, and it is wireless.

[bcammack]

Our stop blocks are at 0,0.

The operator shuts off the machine and gently pulls the carriage back to the stop blocks, powers back up, and zeros the X/Y.

Of course, we only run the same four programs in various combinations and those all run out near the middle of the table.

[henrik_o]

Wow. So much information! Thanks guys, this is more than I would have ever expected and it's great. I'll have to take some time to digest this and then come back for questions.

Again, thanks to all!

[harryball]

Yep, if there are 8 ways to do something this board will tell you 9 ways. While all of these are great suggestions just remember we all do different things and don't hesitate to come up with a combination or whole new approach that works best for you.

Robert

[Gary Campbell]

Henrik...
Here is version 10 of 8. I have 5 grids of T-track which were routed in after the machine was all squared. I have blocks of wood, aluminum and plastic of different shapes and sizes that fit in or are bolted in the tracks to give an X or Y zero in any of the 5 zones. I use C3 to zero zone 1. Prox switch rollbacks were set to zero on zone one. I also use custom cuts #'s 22,33,44 and 55 to {C3} and then offset to other zone and rezero. This way I can be setting up work in one zone while another is cutting. I also use vac sealed pallets in each of the zones as spoilboard replacement. Here is a picture of the Tracks.
8402
Gary

[knight_toolworks]

here is my x y file for zero'ing in a certain location.
look at the line JX, 4.382 'Jog X to park position (*could put another location here)
and the same fro y and it will zero ion the same location every time. I have several of these for most used locations. it's pretty fast since it zeros and locates the 0,0 spot all in one operation.




8403 (5.1 k)

[ryan_slaback]

My way is a bit different than those mentioned already. I use the proximity switches for repeatability but rather than trying to find the exact corner of the table I just moved to a place close to the corner with easily remembered numbers. In my case the X is 4 inches from the prox switch and the Y is 2.5 inches. Once I put those variables in I chucked a 60 degree V bit and carved an X and Y axis right into the spoilboard about 1/32" Deep. I now just line up with the axes, apply hold down and go. I like that nothing sticks up as I like to cut through to the bottom edge of a sheet so that I have an easy place to get a bandsaw or jigsaw in when using tabs.
Do keep in mind though that if you use a single position as the origin each time and run small files you are going to wear out that part of the rails faster than if you move around and use the whole table.

[myxpykalix]

I set my X,Y in a variation of Ed's way. I have my material set up on table. I do C3 and get it to corner lower left. Then i move the carraige manually to where i want my offset 0,0 to be (whether center on material or lower left) I write down those figures (example X 10.265, Y 14.672). I then Zzero at that point. If i have a default all i have to do is do a C3 then MX 10.265, MY 14.672 and i'm back to center.

[knight_toolworks]

that works but if you don't have to do it often. but use m2 and type them both in or j2 10.265, 14.672

[myxpykalix]

I guess i meant when i lose my settings due to a static electric spark, that loses my settings. The constant setting is the C3 0,0. Then moving back to the written down measurements puts you physically back to the same spot.

Because if you lose your settings, wherever your carriage stops at, that is now 0,0. But it sounds to me like ALL these methods are the right methods, its whatever works for you.

[ed_lang]

John,
Steve is trying to tell you that you don't have to type two commands to get the tool to 10.265 and 14.672. You can type just one command- M2 OR J2. That command will move two directions at once.

So try this out after you C3 today.

Type M2 10.265,14.672 The comma is NEEDED. X is the first number, then a comma, then the Y number.

Your machine will move in X and Y at the same time and get to the same location as if you typed MX and MY. It is just quicker.

[myxpykalix]

Ahhh, that is why i consider you my YODA. When i say i'll try, you say.. "do, or do not, there is no try"..lol
I was doing it as a two step operation.

[srwtlc]

With the little "Work Offset" routine I described above, you don't even have to write or type anything. Just choose to save or go to the position.