Windows Vista

[rob_jones]

I bought a new computer to use exclusively with my Shopbot which has Vista Installed. My intention was to modify my computer so it was optimized for just running Shopbot3, no internet, no games, nothing but CAD software and shopbot. In searching the web I found that this new feature of Vista, User Account Control (UAC) can cause programs to run wrong, and when they fail, cannot ever run again. What I found was that the UAC security settings basically tears apart the program because it recognizes it as a threat, causing it not to work anymore.
In my case, (so far) disabling UAC sounds like the way to go possibly. I'll never have to worry about viruses, because I will never connect to the Internet.
But, for those who want it all, I found this webpage which describes how to set up your system so your program thinks it's running on an older OS, and Vista sets aside a safe area for your program to write files so it won't all go corrupt.
http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2006/04/25/application-compatibility-in-vista.html is the link. A previous thread in these forums spoke about creating a "dual boot" so basically you can shut down your computer, and restart it in XP, then shut down again and restart in Vista. This sounds cumbersome to me, especially with long boot times.
This website talks about installing Microsoft virtual PC, or virtual machine. You would install the version of Windows of your choice, and your "legacy applications" on this virtual machine, then it is as simple as start Virtual PC, start the VM, and launch the application. I have not tried this since my Vista is going to be dedicated non-internet.
I thought this would be good to share with everyone as people start buying more Vista computers and trying to run Shopbot software.
If anyone is interested in stopping those stupid security popup boxes and disabling the UAC, open control panel, in the search box in the upper right corner of the screen, type UAC. A box will open where you can click an option to change or disable the UAC, click that and uncheck the box for UAC. This will require system restart. IMPORTANT NOTE!! I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS IF YOU ARE USING THE INTERNET WITH THAT COMPUTER. BASICALLY YOU WILL LOSE ALL VIRUS PROTECTION AND THE SYSTEM WILL HAVE THE SAME VULNERABILITY OF AN "XP" SYSTEM.
For XP users who want to use more of their available RAM or free up RAM on your computer, see the website: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/OptimizeXP.html I followed a lot of the info on this page and got my XP system running really smooth, (and fast).
I will say the disclaimer that I am no computer wizz by any standard, I have just searched the web a lot and found what looks like legitimate solutions. So balance this information with your own research. But this is some good info for a starting point.

[Gary Campbell]

Robert..
I use Vista on my design computer with, at least so far, no problems at all. Our dedicated shop computer runs XP Pro (as reccomended by SB) with all of the non esential services disabled. We will stay with the reccomended OS during our warrantee period as there is no guarantee that Vista has a proven track record with the PC to Control Box communication. These comm problems can be very frustrating to even the most learned operators. You might email SB Tech Supt to see if they are supporting Vista as an OS at this time.
Gary

[myxpykalix]

My laptop is used to run the shopbot and that is its only function, no other programs installed. It runs XpPro. I have found with ALL versions of microsoft operating systems that they release them prematurely and let the buyer be their guinea pig beta testers to refine their releases.
I never upgrade until that operating system has been out for a year or a few updates. I saw this start with windows 95 and every incarnation since has been bug riddled upon release. I'd go back to xp pro if i were you.

[knight_toolworks]

I want a new computer to control the shopbot. but get a new one and you only get vista. like wally world has one that would be perfect and it's only 250.00 with a gig of memory and I checked the site and no xp drivers.
looking at used computers I don't really see any cheaper.

[steve4460]

Hi Steve
Check out dell.com ther you can still order the PC with windows xp

bot on
sv

[GlenP]

Hey Steve, I bought a used Dell on ebay for $150 bucks. It is a Pentium 4, 2 gig with 160 hard drive. Came with a genuine release of XP Pro loaded on it and the CD. Works great on the bot.
I too wanted to stay away from vista.
take Care,

[knight_toolworks]

have not hit ebay yet. though I did find a dell scratch and dent for 215 comes with vita but I see it has xp drivers.

[gpari]

Yeah, look at Dell under small business. They still offer XP for the business line. I have a $300 Dell (with a free printer!) running XP hooked to the bot. Once I turned off all the automatic update carp it worked great.

Gabe

[Gary Campbell]

I am sure XP Pro is still for sale. We got ours as an OEM pack for system builders when we bought the hardware to assemble the computer. If XP is in short supply I will remove it from this computer and install it in the next. I have enough "fun" with Vista in the office, I dont need that in the shop. I am sure SB will end up there, when ready.
GC
Gary

[knight_toolworks]

What I found is if a computer comes with vista you may not be able to get the xp drivers if they were never made. you will be able to buy xp for 10 more years (G)

[tomb]

Gabe Pari is on top of this one with the "small business" idea. I am having a new control computer being built with XP Pro. If you look at any of the manufacturers web sites look for the " small business" section. HP has a section for business computers at discounts, refurbished and overrun models. Business models come with less software pre loaded which is good.
Tom B.

[knight_toolworks]

as usual the used dell systems on ebay are going for more then the referbished ones from dell go figure.

[myxpykalix]

try: www.ubid.com (http://www.ubid.com)

I have bought tons of tivos from there in the past that i upgraded to 300 hrs for people and made into security systems. With a quick look I saw 3 or 4 in the $250.00 range, didn't check to see if new/refurb, ect.

[garyb]

you can order Gateway business machines with xp
www.pro.mpccorp.com (http://www.pro.mpccorp.com)

[bleeth]

A brand new Dell w/xp and a 19" flat monitor is $389 with free shipping.

[knight_toolworks]

got a refurbished dell on the way. nothing like having the fastest computer I own running my shopbot (G) but I am debating on using this new computer for vcarve and email and such and use the laptop that I use now for the shopbot.
then when I get another cheap dell I will replace the laptop since it is a expensive light laptop that is great for traveling.
but I am debating on ripping out vistas heart and putting xp on the dell or jsut deal with vista ?
vcarve pro ok in vista photocarve cut3d? most of the stuff I run otherwise will be fine.

[butch]

I bought a new computer with Vista in Feb. I had problems with most of the Microsoft programs. I had to fight with Microsoft for credit on programs I had recently purchased and was unable to use, (one was Small Business Accounting that was two months old). But as yet I have not had any issues with other programs, specifically SB3, PW2, VCarve 4.5,Corel X3, Photoshop and Quick Books for Manufacturing. I am running my ShopBot off a laptop using XP, so can not say if there is an issue there. Just didn't trust Vista in the shop.

[rhfurniture]

Personally, I refuse to budge from 2K, the devil you know and all that. R.

[rcnewcomb]

> Personally, I refuse to budge from 2K

I know what you mean. BTW, I went to my Windows ME users group meeting last night but I was the only one there! <wry smile>

[rhfurniture]

I don't actually see what Vista does over 2K, besides look fashionable and make you buy a faster new computer.

[tradition_wood]

If you have an older machine and an XP disk (not a "restore" disk), just get the new machine, wipe the HD and install your XP disk.

Vista is just a shined up version of XP and your right Ralph, you would need a new machine with more stuff (memory, disk space etc), it's all about the money!

[rob_jones]

Just an update, I've been using the shopbot with Vista now for a week and everything has been working great. I ditched all programs that were not needed, disabled UAC and optimized it for pure performance. The desktop loads in 48 seconds and everything is extreemly fast and flawless. The system only has 894Mb of RAM. I use a 1G flash drive from walmart ($20) to transfer files from my XP in the house to the garage. My XP runs a lot smoother now too from performing some of those optimizing functions.

[jeff_b]

Evening gentlemen, I'm new here & hope you don't mind me crashing your party. We ordered an SB which is due in December, and decided to update our computers since all were fairly old (like their users). Our options were as stated above until the IT guy I use when I get in a jam suggested I try the new Macs with the new Leopard OS. WOW what a difference. The new MACs with Intel chips use a thing called "boot camp" which allows them to boot up in XP Pro or MAC OS as the "native" operating system. Or you can operate XP pro as "virtual machine" inside the MAC OS. The only thing I notice different is that if you run the virtual machine, rendering is a bit sluggish. But in Boot camp it's fast as lightning. I've run all the trial versions of all the software through it with no ill effects, and I ran the SB Control Software hooked to a friends machine and it ran flawlessly. Plus no viruses, no Windows communications issues, and a MUCH MUCH faster & VERY stable machine. After struggling with windows issues since v3.1 in the late 80's, I've finally seen the light. So far, I can't recommend them more highly! I'm going to stick with the MACbook Pro I got to demo the software with until the SB arrives & I can do live fire testing. But if all works as well as I've seen so far, every PC in our shop will be on e-bay the next day.

[kivimagi]

Jeff,

Aren't the MacBook Pro's like $2800..

I mean I love computers, but I like tools too, and a chance to retire someday.

[voll]

I had been running the shopbot booted in xp on a macbookpro since the day I got the SB over a year ago. But....ever since i upgraded to leopard its been 2 weeks of mess, cutting out mid file and headache. So the mac thing is now out and Im looking at getting the most basic PC laptop for $400 running XP pro (like shopbot recommends), shutting off all of the extras, virus, etc and dedicating it to running the SB only.

http://www.dfsdirectsales.com/

Which is Dell resale from previous leases with XPpro installed and ready to go. I guess there are alot of issue going backwards to XP from Vista on a new PC with all the new/old drivers, etc. After talking to Dell salesperson and repeating, no Id like to spend less he finally gave me the above address.


It also started making less sense to tie up a $3500 mac laptop all day when a $400 Dell will do the job better and without all the connection headaches. The other shopbot related software works fine in both 'virtual pc' and boot camp. Running and transferring files from Millwizard, Parts Wizard, Partworks & Vectorworks files, etc to the PC still isn't a problem. Actually works great to do design on the Mac and just plop the file onto the Parallels virtual PC desktop to use the SB related software, but I wouldn't recommend running the SB with OSXLeopard unless you enjoy computer problems in the middle of a big project.

Has anybody else been running the Shopbot with a Mac?