"The Ideal Workshop"

[joe]

Happy Sunday Botters and Letterheads

What would be the ideal workshop you'd like to attend? Here are some of my thoughts.

Two or Three Day Legnth.
Small class size.
Hands on experience in making samples.
Advanced Layout & Design.
Routing Techniques & Short Cuts.
Introduction to 3D.
Texturing & surface techniques.
Plowing the back pasture with trusty old mule.

What would you like to see?

[dubliner]

Joe,
I think 3 days would be good,
Small as possible, but lots of people will want to go,
Other than that I know I would come away having learned a lot so I hope it works out. Just want to say its very very kind of you to share your knowledge with us. You are an elder statesman on this forum.

[jhicks]

Joe, you should be resting that active mind but as long as your asking.
Elements of design and color are often what I feel I am weak on. Not sure how that is learned or if its just a lifetime of work, training, creative minds and a bit of genetics but would love to have some basic guidelines from a true artist.
Physical properties and options for material selection. What works, why some are better than others in certain applications and combinations.
The latest in the "search for the holy grail" ie: Faux wood grain sandblast with cnc.
Whats the best so far and how can we as a group get to the real solution.
Importing, scaling, and fabricating "textures" from images.
Large dimensional sculptutes via layering techniques and finishing them with materials like epoxy, plaster,clay or whatever.
Incorporating vinyl in routed signs, how to, when to, and what techniques are complimentary/effective.

I'm desperately wanting to be there so any news on dates so I can make it happen, would be appreciated.
Be well.

[lstovall]

Joe,

Things from you list that are most important to me.

Days - the more the better
Small class size
Hands on experience making samples
Advance design and layout
Texturing and surface techniques

Also something on finishing techniques such as Sculpt Nouveau. I'm experimenting with that now.

As for 3D, I need to learn some 3D modeling software but that would be a course in itself. I need to do one of Gary Beckwith's custom training classes on 3D.

We'll get to the plowing during the breaks, I assume you have enough oats for the mule or do we need to bring some.

Leon

[joe]

Thanks for the advice fellows.

Jerry,
Two things:

A good workshop should help student refine their techniques and products. There by, getting the confidence and techniques to branch out into other markets.

Second:
There's no an end to learning Layout & Design. I'm still getting a thrill on each job. But there are some good basic starting points. I'd be glad to go over these with you on the phone, but without a pencil and paper in front of us it's not very effecient.

Rule #1
A Center of Interest. Every good piece of art has one. Painting, Sculpture, Photography, it's the first and probably the most important rule and most violated.

Your in the EYE directing business. Your the EYE traffic cop. It's your job to move the eye around the panel. Your eyes can only focus on one small spot at a time. The brain puts all these little images together to make the big picture. Try this; Look at any painting and see how your must roam around to get the whole thing. That's the business of design.

Rule #2.
Unity.
Everything on the panel relates to your center of interest.ie (Dominant Object) It should be complementary not distracting, but supporting. Which is to say, smaller copy should help not detract.

This is very old stuff. And as sharp as you are it would come quickly. It helps to have someone to guide in though.

I'm always open to suggestions.

Thanks.

[zeykr]

All of your and Jerry's suggestion sound great!

Layout and Design

Choosing the right materials for a job and combining different materials. When to use what material, what to watch out for such as paint adhesion, thermal expansion etc.

Mounting techniques for finished signs.

Hand painting techniques

Using router and sandblaster together to create a sign.

As many days as practical with as much hands on or at least eyes-on experience as possible.


A two part workshop would be neat - several days of training, then a several week break with an assignment to build and bring when we get back together for a peer review session and some further training. Would be interesting to see how everyone interprets the same project.

[jhicks]

You have done it Joe. A relatively simple overview of the primary goal and the basic reasoning/logic behind it. Souinds so simple but easier to say than to do.
Might be great to have an example showing how one works and how one works less based on these rules.

I see you say, "this is very old stuff" but I guess that means I'm not "very old enough" or you are "very old enough" to teach those with a mis spent youth who are now trying to listen, learn, and catch up.
It definately helps to have a pro help one focus on the basics and build enough confidence. Great to know one has good advice and support from a respected professional.
All I need is "enough to get into trouble" and a sounding board when I get confused.
Be well
Thanks.

[ernie_balch]

joe,

I have been to a few seminars, some good and some bad. The best ones were ones where I took home a completed project and a binder of notes summarizing what I was supposed to learn.

One of the worst ones was in Ohio where I paid a good deal of money to sit and watch demos of name brand materials and very expensive sign making software that I could never afford.

I have often thought that I after I retire I would like to do week long courses were people would come in with a design and learn to do every step from sketch through final finish and gold leafing.

ernie
www.balchsigns.com (http://www.balchsigns.com)

[joe]

Ernie,

I agree completely. Gotta take some projects, you've completed, home with you. Many of the technical steps in finishing will be forgotten if the student doesn't put them to use during the training process.

I get calls all the time from folks that sat in on one of my demonstrations wondering how I did that project. You must do them, right then to remember the steps.

Jerry,

That's a good idea about posting a couple of examples. This is a subject you will never find the end of. But if you put your mind to it, there will be a completely new way of seeing.

[jseiler]

Will video be available for those unable to travel?

John

[myxpykalix]

I would also suggest that you make a seperate class for beginners and one for more advanced.

People who are more advanced may not want to sit thru 2 days of beginner stuff and also people like me who have never made a sign would get lost and overwhelmed if you start with advanced techniques not even knowing the basics.

You might want to structure it so for example the first 2 days are basic stuff, then those who are more advanced would not have to come till the 3rd day to the 5th day (of a 5 day course).

Maybe have everyone design or come up with their ideas in advance to bring to the course and then there they get refined.
Those that have laptops can bring them to work on there.

A video would be great, but as someone who has worked on movies and television for years I know how much production and post production would have to go into it to make it a quality video and I don't think there is enough of a market to justify the expense and work involved to produce.
It would be better done in an environment where he's not trying to teach people. But it would be a great idea.

[joe]

Good Thoughts Jack,

There won't be any legnthy lectures or demo's. Since we have only six or seven attendes, we'll hit the road running.

I'm conducting a hands on workshop. Each person will work on his assigned project to completion. There will be several of these. Each student chooses his own project. My job will as a guide.

I want every person to be nice and tired, ready for bed at the course. We'll work together, eat together, and pub together for three days. Like most Letterhead meets it could go well into the nights and the router won't stop running.

I'm not a tech router guy. There won't be any router tech stuff. I'll get lost.

No Video. I don't know anything about that stuff either. Anyone is welcome to take all the picks they wish.

[jamesgilliam]

Joe, When are you thinking of holding your workshop? I am sure Jo-Anne and I would plan on being there.

[pfulghum]

Joe,
As I said in my email...(duplicated here for history's sake)...

*NOT* basic shopbot stuff like vcarve, artcam, or controller SW

Mostly "2.5D" or "3D" Signage...

The Materials you use (and when to use what)
The Techniques you use (hold down, fasten stuff on, sandblast?)
The tools (bits, hand) you use
Combining the basics to make elaborate signs
Monuments and Mounts and
Pricing and building the business.

-- pat

[joe]

Thanks to everyone for their input.

I'm going to take this topic off line since this isn't a sponsored Shopbot Camp and am concerned our friend at the company might object.

Out of respect to Shopbot please contact me directly with your suggestions and questions.

This is a self directed note not a request from the moderator.

Joe

[blackhawk]

This is a little off the subject. But I would love for Joe or someone with like experience to create a booklet or index of sign materials. I see a new material mentioned almost every other time I log on. I am thinking of an index that lists all the materials with other info. List the materials: Dibond, Extira, Signfoam, MDO, Trupan, etc. Then list such things as Best Uses, Available Thicknesses/Sizes, Properties, Pros, Cons, Manufacturer, Distributers, Primer to Use, Etc. All the materials out there are just a blizzard in my head at this point. I would be glad to pay for something like this. Maybe also make one for paints and finishes. Also, someone could offer a sample packet for sale with say a 1 foot square piece of each material. Holding something in your hand is worth a 1,000 words. I am 90 miles from the nearest sign supply, so it is hard to get a feel of everything that is available.

[joe]

Brad,

Your talking about a book that would be out of date before it's publication.

That is the job a creaative sign person wrestles with daily. No one I know of has the kind of time it would take.

[blackhawk]

I am not talking about a full on professionally published book. Just a list of maybe the top 20 most widely used materials, maybe a 1/2 page of info per material. I would pay for such a booklet. I know new things come on the market all the time, but most material has been out there for years. I wouldn't think that signfoam, for example, would be out of use within the year.

[jseiler]

This would work really well on the shopbot wiki where everyone with a little time could contribute.

[Forum Admin]

http://shopbotwiki.com for anyone who would like to jump in

[gerard]

although it seems that many of the things I would be interested are already covered in the forums of you dig around, I still think that its good to see some of the basics up close and personal, from taking an idea in my head to laying it out in the software to selecting the material to holding it down to correcting a problem mid stream without necessarily trashing the entire kaboodle.

[joe]

Gerald,

I agree that would be an interesting workshop.

Ours is for the more advanced craftsman. The techniqes will be for Shopboters who are up and running but need to increase their customer base. This is a hands on, get down and do it workshop for those with some experience.

I will be taking this information off the forum and posting it to our website, shortly, to eleminate any conflict of itnerest. You will be able to review it there.

[joe]

Greetings Shopbotters,

My latest thoughts for anyone interested in offering a workshop:

Thinking back on all those great Letterhead Meets and Shopbot Camps I've attended, there's been many good tips and techniques I've forgotten. For that reason I believe it necessary each attendee have hands on experience. That way the steps and techniques are less likely to be forgotten. So if you see someone demonstrating something you're interesten in, see if they will let you give it a try. I bet they'd enjoy your interest. I know I am.

Also, the very best techniques, if not applied in the right situation aren't that spectacular. It's the setting which shows them off. So you have to show how to set them up. For example: Gilding on a light background doesn't have the snap as when on a dark background. That's the art in signage.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com/workshop.htm (http://www.normansignco.com/workshop.htm)