Surface Planning bits

[drodda]

What are you using besides the shopbot 1.25" bit to surface plane with? I am looking for something new to give a try to surface the table top. I am having some issues with the current bits I am using and would like to find new suppliers.

Is the shopbot 1.25" bit available from onsrud? I can't seem to find it on the Onsrud site?

[joe]

Hello Dave,

Hope work is going well.

I was considering the same issue last night and found a Spoil Board Surfacing Cutter in the Onsrud catalogue. It's on page 76 Item #91-000.

It's one of those mandrels types with changeable blades. I've never use one of these. So give it a try and let me know. That way if it's awful, I probably won't buy one. Heeeeheeeee.

[myxpykalix]

Dave,
I generally prefer centuriontools.com but i don't know if they make a wide planing bit so here is where i've bought bits for my legacy ornamental mill.
http://magnate.net/index.cfm?event=showProductGroup&theID=136

look at 2704 (1 1/4"), 2705, 2706, 2707<(2 1/4" cutting surface).
I'd email centurion first and ask.

[drodda]

I have used the Magnate ones and the surfacing bit is not flat. Both 2704 and 2705 bits. It is like a 2 degree v bit or something. Leaves your spoil board wavy. I thought it was just a single bad bit but I have had three in a row that are like this. I am sending these back to them. Looking for another source for this type of bit?

[joe]

Dave,

I know your are very critical on this type of cutter. Please let us know if you find a good one.

[waynelocke]

I haven't used these particular cutters but I do use some other Her-Saf bits and and they work well. Check these out, http://www.hersaf.com/shop/index.php/action/category/id/7/subid/14/
I've been tempted.

[Gary Campbell]

Dave...
We use the Amana 2.5" with inserts. They do a great job for us on hardwoods as well as the spoilboard. A little pricey in the beginning, but the inserts are very reasonable.
http://www.amanatool.com/cncroutingdetails/rc-2257.html
Gary

[myxpykalix]

I seem to recall something where it talked about a 1 degree bevel on it but i can't tell you the signifigance of that. I use it on my table surfacing and probably couldn't tell the difference between 0 degrees and 1 degree. But others might know better. You might talk to centuriontools and see if they can make you something up. They are pretty good about stuff like that.

[drodda]

Jack,

Believe me you would see and feel the results I was getting with these cutters. Left a pattern on the spoilboard and had a wavy like feel when you brushed your hand across the table.

[wcsg]

Those are sissy bits, I use a 1/8" bit to do my surfacing

[lto]

Dave,

You may want to verify that your router is perfectly perpendicular with the table. A slight tilt will produce the results you describe. Surfacing the table with a very slightly overlapping rectangular pattern will make any tilt obvious by examining the ridges.

We use a 2 1/2" diameter insert tool by onsrud; it works well. The surfacing tool recently posted by Ralph Hampton would perform even better due to its slight upcut hook angle.

[drodda]

Louis,

I am aware of the lines an out of caliber Z can leave. I fought many battle with the machine over that issue. This pattern left was a rounded wavy feel to the surface. Not a tilted line like I have experienced in the past before installing my Z axis adjustment shown in another thread. The table top looked like a sine wave modulation.

I can't find the bit Ralph mentioned in a US supplier though.

BY the way these two posts are not connected. two seperate problems in different settings. Thought the other one was machine related and this one was bit related.

Anyone have a 60" planing bit so I can plane in one pass? I bet Brady has one in the works, He does some amazing things after laying in his salt bath all afternoon.


Even with the machine at the closest to perpendicular I can measure I get some shade of a line pattern on my table. Was always told this is due to the 12 inch Z axis I have and the Z axis being at its full extention. Had a lengthy talk with Jamie from Shopbot about this today in fact.

I appreciate the help from all.

-D

[knight_toolworks]

the onsrud 2.5" bit is over 400.00 a little expensive I think. the amana is about 200.00 and the whiteside about 240.00
I bought a amana 1.75 straight bit for 40.00 for right now.

[lto]

I haven't tried this one, but from the description it looks good;
http://www.hersaf.com/shop/index.php/action/category/id/7/subid/14/
I doubt that a better value will be found in insert cutters.

[joe]

Dave,

I'm wondering if the problem isn't associated with the gantry movement.

I've been very impressed with the quality surfacing of Gerber CNC's. They only have a gantry clearance of 3.75" and there by extremely rigid. Have you considered this?

[lto]

Dave,

We use an onsrud 2.5" insert cutter for surfacing; we also see some or the ridges you describe when running at a nearly maximum stepover. You might try reducing stepover, then find a way to mount your random orbit sander to the carriage and watch the shopbot sand away.

Maybe you could find a local wide belt sander open for custom work?

[rhfurniture]

Dave - sorry, they are Australian - www.carbitool.com (http://www.carbitool.com)

[garyb]

As Wayne & LTO listed above hersaf cutters are hard to beat in this field.
I've used the hersaf hr-1875 for years (they have doubled in price since I purchased mine)
Works extremley well and insert cutters are economical.
Those of you who use a small nut er25 collet with M-type wrench will appreciate the threaded arbor (shank)

[paco]

I also use the Her-Saf dual positive (mentioned above) and I'm happy with it and I also use other Her-Saf products with the same degree of satisfaction.

[joe]

"Left a pattern on the spoilboard and had a wavy like feel when you brushed your hand across the table."

I know Dave and the quality of work he does. This problem just doesn't seem like a router bit issue.

[drodda]

Joe,

When you can take the bit and lay it on a flat surface such as a piece of glass, an it rocks back and forth and you can see this with your naked eye easily, I would say it is a router bit issue. I have a 2704 bit that is older and well used. It does not rock at all on a flat surface. The new bits I have received rock 3/16 of an inch at the top of the shank. the gap between the glass and the carbide is 1/32 of an in or so at the outer edge of the carbide cutter. So this is why I am wanting a new bit to try. I am sure Magnate makes good quality bits just not the ones I received lately.

The surfaceing pattern in the table that I have always lived with is from the machine and gantry with a 12 inch Z. I can't simulate the force the router spinning with a bit in it during my setup and calibration procedures. I have a trammel that hooks to my dial indicator and have used this many time to try and compensate. It just can't be done with my machine and setup. The pattern is seen but not felt with you hand.

I am not saying that this was not mentioned to me many times during my ordering process. I have learned to live with my greed of wanting to be able to do it all. I have not had any reason since I built my machine to ever need the 12 inch Z. But I just had to have it in case something came along. Lesson learned there. Kind of like people who buy the indexer adn never take it out of the box.

[joe]

Thats good news and bad.

Keep in mind Dave, it's just a router. It's not like one of those "Untill Death Do Us Part" situations.

I know you'll keep on turning out great tables no matter what.

[drodda]

I'm on my third one of those also? Have not figured out what "death" means I guess, however got the part down pat?

I am currnetly weighing in all the choices on a new machine. I appreciate all your help with this information over the years. Your knowledge is an asset to this comunity.

I am trying to figure out if it is time to move up to a better system. Or build one from scratch.