Thinking about another Shopbot

[erik_f]

I sold my PRT 9648 about 2 years ago and never replaced it. I've been thinking a lot about getting into a Buddy32 Standard. I am some what worried that I will not be unhappy with the cutting size of the table having had the larger machine in the past. I do not plan on trying to make money with the Buddy...more just having fun with it. I do not want to spend anymore than what the Buddy would cost. I'm already having a hard time spending that much for "fun". My only hang up is the size issue. On the other hand...I think in some ways the Buddy's size might be an advantage for me. Easier to use, easier to get around, doesn't take up my whole work space, will force me to do more reasonable projects because of the smaller cutting area. Also I think in case of having to work on the Buddy it will be easier to work on and keep running tight. I never felt my PRT ran quite as good as I had hoped. So I'm hoping with the hardened rails and new Z with no V groove bearings, plus the smaller size should make the Buddy more accurate. I know there is a lot in here...but I'm just having a hard time pulling the trigger...even though if I'm going to do it...now is the time for the Buddy with the current pricing about to go up.

Erik

[ed_lang]

You sound like me in trying to decide on what wide belt sander to get. The 15" open end units will do what I need them to do but then there is the 18" closed unit with more features but then I am close to the 24" units with more. Where does it all stop!?

I too would love to have a Buddy. I think most of my work would be done on that machine.

Let us know when you order yours.... today would be a good day to do so you know. :-)

[erik_f]

It seems like owning a larger CNC is almost like owning a 4x4 pick-up truck...50% of the time you just drive it like a car and wonder why the hell am I paying so much for gas...25% of the time you are glad you paid the extra 4K for the four wheel drive and being able to haul just about anything you want...and the other 25% of the time wishing you didn't own one at all so your friends would leave you alone with there "special" projects you will be doing, I mean helping them with. I think speaking in terms of a purely hobby machine the Buddy will help me keep my projects from getting out of control and over complicated. This is what happened with my 4x8 PRT...I ended up using mostly only to do side jobs and over thought my own projects so much that I never would get around to them. I think the small format of the Buddy will keep things downsized enough to keep project mo simplerer...or is this a backwards justification that I will just regret later knowing some of the pretty cool large format stuff I was able to do in the past on the 4x8? I realize I'm the only one that can really answer these questions but I was hoping maybe there was someone out there that has done what I'm doing

[tomahack]

I ordered my BT32 Alpha yesterday. Five weeks seeems an eternity.

[erik_f]

Does anyone think it worth it to drive 20 hours round trip to save $400 on the shipping? It works out to about 16-20 dollars per hour depending on pee breaks.

[Gary Campbell]

Eric..
Dont forget that you will have to pay sales tax if you pick it up. On a large machine it is the same or more than the shipping.
Gary

[djmcnutt]

Erik,
20 hours, must be aroud 1200 miles with gas at $3.25+ per gal I would have it shipped. Unless you just want to go for a ride.

[erik_f]

I've done that drive before...PA is the worst state to drive through...it seems to last forever...most likely I will have it shipped if I go through with it.

[myxpykalix]

erik,
I bought a 96-60 so i could do columns and full size sheets of plywood. As it turns out about 75% of what i've been doing is done on about 25% of the table. The great thing tho is that when i want to do full sheets of mdf or plywood i just flop it on and go.
And although you tell yourself i can do all i want on "this" size...a project will come along that necessitates a bigger table. However being a resourceful lot as we are, you probably could figure out how to make it work for you. So in the end it probably comes down to the size of your wallet dictating the size of your table.

[myxpykalix]

erik,
doing the quick math in my head
1200 divided by 20mpg= 60 gal x$3.25=$195.00
plus food, lodging and possibility of breakdown or speeding ticket. Plus you won't be able to open your boxes for a few days trying to recoup from the trip.....stay home and relax.

[erik_f]

Thanks Jack,
You are right about being able to make it work for me...most times I've been able to find a way. I would have to stay right around 65 mph to come close to 20mph with the Chevy...most likely it would be closer to an average of 18 on a long trip like that. The other thing I did not think about was the last time I pulled an over-nighter to take that run I was 10 years younger. Man...I must be getting old...I'm using too much common sense!

[mikek]

Erik, you may want to inquire about a BT48 Buddy.
That would give you future capability for 48" sheet goods, but give you a standard table depth of 24", and 48" wide versus the 32" standard width. The strength and stability with the new extruded z axis gantry is there with either machine. They should be available very soon I think.

[erik_f]

Thanks Mike,
I left a message for them...I think the price as of right now is almost 1800 more for the BT48...The 48" BT would be very nice...since I think with the PowerStick upgrade you could actually put a 4x8 sheet of ply wood on it if you really needed to. I'm sure the Powerstick wouldn't be as good as a 4x8 table...but it would allow you to do larger projects like larger case work if you so wanted to...so maybe it would be a good option even though it is quite a bit more...I think they are going to be asking $1000 for the powerstick also. Now you're looking at close to 7K...that is my only hang up...at that point you're pretty close to one of the larger machines.

Erik

[erik_f]

Well...I ended up placing my order...and I decided to go with the BT48 even though the smaller BT32 is a much better deal right now until the price increase. I just couldn't shake the idea of the extra 2.7 square feet the 48" gives as well as the ability to upgrade with the PowerStick and do larger sheets if needed. The way I look at it...most of the work I will do will fit much easier on the 48" then the 32" and there should be less waste and less messing with the table saw. That extra $2000 for 16 inches was and is still pretty hard to swallow. It would have been nice if they were giving the same intro pricing on the BT48 as they are on the BT32. I guess given the choices the BT 48 is still 2K less than the 4'x4' model and more flexable than the BT32 which costs less and the PRS 4'x4' which costs more. That is the I thought the BT48 was worth the extra...I hope that it turns out that I'm right.

[ajf]

Erik could I ask who you've been talking too about the BT48 and the PowerStick upgrade at ShopBot. I've sent two inquires to them and have been told this unit is not available, yet I'm seeing on the forum that people are actually able to purchase this unit. So I'm a little puzzled by their response.

[erik_f]

The powerstick is not, but I didn't have any problems ordering the BT48. I spoke with Diane. I think maybe I bugged her so much she would have done just about anything to get rid of me though
.

[coolhammerman]

Eric:
Glad to hear you are getting back into a Bot. I'm the fellow from Atlanta who purchased your old PRT 4896. I purchased the G4 upgrade and it transformed the machine. Speed was really increased and accuracy is unbelievable now.

I jog at 8ips and cut 3/4 BC" regularly at 4ips. Previously I cut @ 2.5 maybe and jogged at 4ips. For the rest of you Alpha owners, I know these are not even close to your machines, but for a PRT, I think it's pretty good.

The Bot has paid for itself many times over and I have made hundreds of folk art signs with it. If you want to take a look www.coolhammers.com (http://www.coolhammers.com).

My latest project is to turn 800 wooden handles for vintage wooden golf club sets. I mounted a lathe on the far end of the Bot perpendicular to the X axis so I can turn a piece 42" long. Photo attached. So far I have completed 418 pieces (but who's counting?)


8757

Absolutely love the Bot. It has been a wonderful purchase for us. Again, glad to see you are back.

Good luck,
Ron and Janice Brown,
Atlanta, Ga.

PS: For everyone but Eric: I am not able to answer a lot of lathe mounting questions due to my extensive travel schedule. suffice it to say that the lathe set up is accurate enough to get me with in about 20 thousandths on the shaft diameter at the hozel end. Good enough for the client so it's good enough for me.

[erik_f]

Ron,
Glad to hear from you...I'm glad the bot is working out well for you...I know you had some worries about being able to get the most use out of it with all your travel. The lathe idea is very interesting...looks like you are just using the lathe as normal, and the bot as your knife. I hope you and Janice are doing well. Good Job!

Erik

[coolhammerman]

Erik:
The Bot did in fact work out much better than we had ever imagined. It really helped that I have two good friends who are Bot Gurus, Wayne Sutter from Woodline USA has 4 Bots and Ralph Thorne has an older 5x10. I have become quite proficient with their excellent guidance.

You will notice a couple of steady rest assemblies mounted on the lathes. They are necessary because of the very small diameters (relative to the length). Flexing is a major problem.

I am going to leave the lathe permanently mounted to the end of the Bot. It will never be in the way for any 4x8 sheet goods and I use the other end (0,0) for less than full sheet work.

I've cut BC plywood, Cherry Plywood, 2x12 SYP, MDF, Corian, HDPE plastic, exotics like wenge, purpleheart, bloodwood, yellow heart, zebrawood, etc. I even set up to cut 24 ga. sheet metal for my folk art sign biz. Can't imagine life without a CNC. These are money making goldmines!

Best of luck with your new one.

Ron

[myxpykalix]

Ron,
Looking at your steady rest assemblies, not knowing your cutting strategies, it looks like they may be an impediment to your cutting. Here are a couple links to some thin stock support for the legacy ornamental mill that maybe you can adapt and make work for you to be able to eliminate those big rings.
http://legacywoodworking.com/products.cfm?product=99
thin stock follower
http://legacywoodworking.com/products.cfm?product=99

also here is something that i made for supporting thin stock. I took 2 rolling pins mounted them side by side longwise so that the stock rode in the "valley" between the 2 rolling pins supporting it from the bottom eliminating any interference from anything on top so you could make one continuous toolpath. You could probably make a longer one out of pvc pipe. Just a thought.

[coolhammerman]

Jack:
Thanks for the advice. Both links are to Legacy. I start with 1.125 Square billits approx 42" long. I make as many as 9 passes to reduce the hickory to a little over .5 inches in some places. The handles are a very long irregular taper with particular detail around the hozel end. Hickory is VERY flexible. If I don't support it very well in short sections, the results are a disaster.

These give great results and are acceptable to the client. Besides, I'm on the downhill side of 800 now.

Thanks for your suggestions.
Ron

[tuck]

Hey Ron, I too have an older PRT 4896 (wooden table), and have been thinking about the G4 upgade. I upgraded my control box a few years ago. How much did it set you back and was it easy enough to do? (BTW, I'm just north of you in Gainesville.)

[coolhammerman]

Mark:
Erik really did lot's of upgrades before I bought his Bot in 2006. It had Alpha running gear (X,Y,Z cars) when I got it. It also had 5 motors, 2 X 2 Y and one Z. I'm thinking I paid $1,250 but that could have included the "Core Charge" for my old control board.

The difference is dramatic. Just about everything doubled; speed, accuracy, precision when I move the carriages with the keyboard. I can't say enough good things about the upgrade. I strongly recommend you do it if it's in the budget.

I did have to reset the Unit Values, very easy to do. My Bot is about as good as a PRT can get without going to a spindle. I recently added a second set of limit stops for use when I'm at the "Other End" using my lathe. I'm able to C3 close to the other end which is really convenient.

Sometime in the not too distant future, I may be in the market for an Alpha, but we will have to see how biz goes first. My buddy has 4 Bots, two PRT's running routers (both with the G4 upgrade) and two Alphas with spindles. There is a huge difference in machines, but I'm extremely happy with mine for now. I'm thinking of buying an Epilog laser rather than an Alpha, so we will have to see.

Mark, maybe we will meet sometime. I travel extensively during the show season which goes from October thru the first of May each year. I travel some in the summer too, but only sporaticaly.

Ron

[tuck]

Thanks Ron. I primarily cut HDU, which cuts like butter and it's become painful over the years to watch my old Bot plod along @ 2.5 ips. I have a feeling that if I do the upgrade I will have all the machine I will ever need to cut my foam signs and such.

I live on Lake Lanier. If and when the lake comes back, you'll have to come up for a ride on my home made pontoon boat! :-D

[coolhammerman]

Mark:
Several years ago I managed Aqualand Marina. I was also a semi-pro bass fisherman on Lanier for a couple of years so I know it very well.

I drove over the dam Wed on my way back from the dentist and there is still lots of water in the lake! I just might take you up on your offer sooner than you think.

I have cut thin stuff at 6ips, but that was pushing it. 4-5ips is like doing 75mph on I-985.
Ron

[tuck]

"I have cut thin stuff at 6ips, but that was pushing it. 4-5ips is like doing 75mph on I-985."

Hahahahahahaha!

[ed_lang]

Be sure to look real close to the Universal laser systems in Scottsdale, Arizona before buying one.
ed

[coolhammerman]

Ed:
I'm sure this will start a fire storm because you probably have one, but I haven't heard many good things about The Universal Brand. In fact, everything I've heard is to stay away. The two I've heard a lot of positive things about are Epilog and Xenetech. Those are the two under consideration at the moment.
Ron

[ed_lang]

No, I don't expect any fire storm from this bunch. I do have a Universal and it has been a real work horse for me. Very happy. I am sure you will do your homework and decide on what machine is best for you.

[coolhammerman]

Ed:
I'll reconsider my choices and include Universal with an open mind. If my homework suggests I should seriously consider Universal also, I will give it a fair shake.

Thanks,
Ron