Floorspace requirements

[rsorensen]

I'm in the process of planning my much-needed workshop and reserving space for the important bits as I go. I'd like to be able to put a Shopbot in a room by itself to isolate the noise and dust. Question is, how much space above & beyond the machine footprint do I need?

Thanks in advance!

Rick Sorensen

[jhicks]

1st plan to move sheet stock in, out, and off machine space maybe even a rack for multiples vs one at a time.
2nd dust collector space if in the same room.
3rd, load from side and end access if possible for max versitility.
4th PC, bits, and work bench for odds and ends.

I did have a 5 x 10 in a 14' x 22 shop and found it was VERY CROWDED so the more the better.
Maybe consider a large barn door to open as wide as possible when needed and close to hold down noise but I don't think I would enclose it at all unless absolutely needed.
Rather enclose dust collectors, vacuums and other noise makers and go with a spindle if possible.

Consider Maybe running for a while to gauge area needed for what you do and then build walls IF you decide that's the best option.
Of course, once the shop is done, it will be too small anyway as you rack, stack, and add other tools or processes so bigger is better no matter what.

[paco]

With a good dust collector and an air filtering system, you wont be covered by dust that fast.

If you choose a spindle or at the very worst, a Milwaukee 5625 router motor, the machine wont be that much noisy.

You may want something different for yourself but I personally want all the room I can around the Bot mostly in the left and right end (X ends) because I handle sheet goods from those way. Moving the material over the rails is not very nice and it simply doesn't make sense with say a inch thick MDF sheet unless you got a crane or something alike.

I'm studying this too and heres's my, so far, layout...


8819


8820

It still depends a lot on what yo intend to do...

You want at least 30 inches around three sides and maybe a little more, say 48-60 inches, at the left X end.

[knight_toolworks]

I don't agree about the noise. when cutting plywood the machine can be very noisy. it can be louder then my dc and thats loud.
Plus there is no need for an air cleaner of you have a good dc. the only tiem I had dust flying around was when I was removing the spoil board and the dust was shooting under the catcher because I was taking so much off at once.

[jhicks]

Steve, sounds like you'll be very pleased when/if you switch to a spindle if you have that much noise.

[bcammack]

Paco,

Your illustration got me thinking.

I wonder if you could take something like the pneumatic/hydraulic motorcycle lifts Harbor Freight sells for $400 and use it as a basis for an adjustable-height infeed table for the ShopBot. They're rated at between 1000 and 1200 lbs.

Something you can lower to the floor, load with a stack of raw materials, and then keep raising so you can comfortably whip them right off the top of the stack and onto the ShopBot.

[knight_toolworks]

I have a spindle and it is nice and quiet but when cutting plywood and such the cutting can be pretty noisy. far and above the noise of the dc.

[carlcnc]

Steve
when cutting plywood does the bit "scream" if so your rpms are too high, of course a quality bit makes a difference
another way to check for feed vs rpm is to catch some of the dust right off the cutter[carefully] if the dust/chips are really warm then you need to adjust.
I have great results with cheap cobalt "rougher" endmills 3flute 3/8 or 1/2 dia. really quiet at 200ipm and about 12000 rpm.

Carl

[knight_toolworks]

Ok will check the speed. been playing a bit with it though I just looked at cut quality.
roughers would always be quiet I bet. I have only used them on my mill but they are pretty quet there. so far I have cut the ply with 1/4" and 1/2" upcut spirals and one downcut all were noisy. so I will try rpms.

[rookie432]

Golly,
I'm not sure I would want my SB in a smaller enclosed space just to avoid noise and dust. My luck I Would allow for 12' of space on the x direction and have a lucritive job offer on 16'of custom molding or something. Not to mention that my 'Bot makes a nice stacking surface when I'm fabricating in the shop. Even an extra workbench or drying rack at times. There is never enough work surface in any shop so noise and dust is an even trade off for me.

2 cents
Bill

[conceptmachine]

Carl,Steve,
You want your chips to be warm,this will let you know that the chips are carrying the heat away from the tool.too much heat will dull your tool prematurely.I just cut some .50 thick pvc for 4 hours straight,the chips were warm and i could hold the cutter when i finished and it was warm to the touch but not hot.the cutter was still sharp as new.

[waynelocke]

I use a cart from Shopcarts, http://www.shopcartsusa.com. These are great carts which allow the material to be flipped from horizontal to nearly vertical and have a hydraulic cyclinder to raise or lower the material. The downside is that they cost a bit over $1000. They are, however, heavy duty and come fully assembled. I think they will hold 12 sheets of 3/4" material.

I have never actually seen one but Hafele has a very similar cart for about $500, part # 007.94.000. I don't think it comes assembled and I don't know how heavy duty it is but it is sure worth a look.

Wayne

[henrik_o]

Wayne, are you sure about the part # for the Häfele cart? The 007.9x series apparently ends at 007.91 in their online catalogue.

I'd love to have a look at it.

[fleinbach]

My Shopbot in a very restricted area. I load sheets with a wench I purchased from Harbor Freight for $79.95

You can see it here http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/show.cgi?tpc=27&post=44549#POST44549

[pete]

Henrik - here is the link for the HPC cart and some other material handling equipment from Hafele

http://www.hafele.com/us/services/haefele-library/4226.aspx

[henrik_o]

Peter, thanks for the link!

I have some drying racks and assorted hardware on order from them, I'll call first thing monday and see if they can add this to the order.

[henrik_o]

Frank L, how timely of you to show up, I was just going to query about "that guy who built a vacuum-hoist" and here you are


I have a Siemens ELMO-G 2.2kW radial blower on a shelf somewhere, and once I get my Alpha I'm thinking about copying your model. Did you get around to installing the quick-release valves?

My preliminary plan is to install a SEK 2000 ($300) electrical winsch on a 10-12 meter run, and connect the ELMO-G to it. Then I'll probably buy a mini version electrical blast gate (SEK 1500/$200) from Ventonova, and wire up that unit plus the ELMO-G to a remote control unit [SEK 500/$80) which I'd attach to the control handle of the winsch, giving me control over both the blower and the valve and the winsch in one unit. I haven't really looked into it in details, so I'd really appreciate if you had some comments on the feasability of such a setup, or if it's overkill in your experience.

Is your setup stable? I'm a bit worried about handling being 'wobbly', especially in the zone directly by/over the Shopbot.

[fleinbach]

Henrik,

No, I did not install a quick-release valve. I installed a swithch to turn off the Gast vacuum pump and that works just fine.

I consider the operation fairly stable. If you pick the sheet up near dead center you can let go at any tome and it stays suspended fine. If you are off center a bit more it will drop to the heavy side if you let go. But even if it is off balance it is very stable as long as you don't let go suddenly. Even off balance I am able to easily control it's position with one hand while lowering it with the other via the up/down switch.

[fleinbach]

Here is a few pictures of my Shopbot location. I would say it is in a fairly restricted place.
The furnace in the rear is 2" from the end of the x-rail

8821

The light is 6' 4" off the floor.

8822

Note the Y-car motor misses my computer by 1" as does the dust collection hose which also misses the stringer by the same amount.

8823


I have less then 40" between vacuum plenum and the lolly column

8824

[bcammack]

I note the vacuum hoist that makes your install feasible in that last pic.

[fleinbach]

Brett,

Yes, the hoist has certainly made it easier but for the first 2 years I did not have it so every sheet was loaded by hand. It wasn't exactly easy but many times I loaded 61" X 121" sheets by myself.

[waynec]

This is a good discussion about a hidden cost of owning a CNC. Viewed another way, designing the work space carefully will increase productivity and return on your CNC investment.

I built a new shop about a year ago, and spent considerable time planning it. I used Corel Draw to make scaled drawings of the Shopbot, and material handling including a 4x8 sheet. I ended up with a shop that allowed the CNC to have 12 feet on both ends of the CNC. 8 foot was for room to manuever sheet good, and the excess was to provide storage for board stock on the input end, and waste carts on the output side.

Just off the input end of the CNC I placed a rack for sheet good storage and jigs. Another rack on the input side stores pine boards for my adirondack chairs.

On the output side I placed an output table at the same height as the CNC bed, and two rolling scrap bins that I roll to my woodstove shop heater when full. I also have two rolling part carts that let me move my parts directly to the next process.

The Computer and controller are in a cabinet on one side, along with some drawers for tools, gasket materials, etc.

I'm really happy with the setup so far.

Plan based on the process that takes the most space- bigger is better.

Consider that the real cost of sizing for the CNC includes the time it takes to stop your business in order to upgrade your space. You don't want to stop and upsize any more than you have to, and you don't want to operate inefficiently because you didn't make enough space.

WayneC