Persuade me away from a Techno-Isel cnc

[toddmaci]

I am very close to purchasing a CNC. I have been looking at the Shopbot for 5 years and would like to get some feedback on why NOT to buy a Techno-Isel.. They seem to be a good machine at a reasonable price. No flames please for bringing up the competition, just trying to make an informed decision. Thanks in advance for your comments.

Todd

[Brady Watson]

Todd,
I think you might have your question backwards. It should be: Why shouldn't I buy a ShopBot? ...and, What have I been waiting for? A little bit of searching will reveal that this question has been answered and discussed many, many times before on this forum. ShopBot is probably one of the most popular CNC companies out there - and I think that it is for several very good reasons. A reliable, robust tool that you can service and modify as you see fit, little maintenance required, affordable, unrivaled Forum with friendly, helpful cohorts, unrivaled training materials, software and performance for the price. The list goes on & on.

FYI - Techno is no longer Techno-Isel...Isel makes high end machines that Techno wasn't selling enough of...

-B

[jamesgilliam]

Todd, For the life of me I can not give you any reason other than I don't know that much about them. Had not heard of them until now. Reasons to buy a ShopBot are too many to list, but here are a few. Support from the great people in Durham could not be better, nights, weekends, holidays, they are always checking for people that may need a bit of help. This forum is another. With the knowledge of all the botters over the years is too valuable, I doubt any other machine maker has one to equal it. Besides the input from the truly great ones, the two Bills and of course Brady who always seem to have the answer. And we cannot forget about the Jamboree and the area camps to meet and visit with fellow owners, discuss new ideas and proven methods for doing just about anything you would ever want to do. If you have not been to one you should attend at the least one camp before you decide on what to get. I think you will decide on a ShopBot in the end. I have had my machine for about seven years now, and it is just as accurate as day one. It is not as fast as the new generation of machines, but it does what I want when I need it to. Just my two cents worth.

[knight_toolworks]

You won't have as much speed unless you pay for the upgrade. 250 ipm is on the slow side you don't have a jog speed. so cutting is slower and moving from cut to cut is far slower then the 12ips the shopbot can do.
You loose z height too I think you loose 3" now. thats a fair amount.

[conceptmachine]

Todd,
Keep in mind that Shopbot and Techno are both light duty machines. dont expect either of them to do what a big iron cnc will do.If you are new to cnc then definately go with Shopbot the support is unbeatable.

[myxpykalix]

Todd,
Go check out their forum and see if it is as active as this one...(oops there is no forum i could find!)
I think you gave the best reason to buy a shopbot in your own words "I have been looking at the Shopbot for 5 years". If it wasn't a good machine you would have moved on by now.

TOP TEN REASONS TO BUY A SHOPBOT:

10. Ted Hall
9. It's a great machine
8. Great software
7. You will be initiated into the "brotherhood of the Bot" and we reveal to you the secret handshake.
6. CHEESE!
5. Available options
4. The sense of pride in creating something really cool.
3. It makes you look like a Frickin artist!
2. Wonderful tech support.
1. You get to hang out with all of us!!!!

[knight_toolworks]

actually accessories goes to the other guys. they have tool changers handy and several other things but usually the spindles are atleast 1000.00 more then what shopbot sells them for.
but the shopbot is more serviceable and upgradeable then most.

[dray]

Todd. Before I bught my PRS Alpha I went and talked with a techno salesguy in Lakeforest Ca, watched it run etc. I also had a friend thet bought a thermwood that he makes mortgage payments on. Anyways both thermwood and Techno raised their eyebrows and downtalked the shopbot and I asked myself why would these guys that are calling the shopbot a toy even waste their breath if it were a toy. Needless to say I did my due dilligence and went with the shopbot.

The techo and thermwood may be .0001 more accurate but I dont work in aerospace, I build cabinets. I dont have a mortgage on my machine I paid cash and it paid for itself in just a few short months.

You couldnt buy my machine off of me for 100k I wouldnt trade it for a techno or a thermwood.

If you are local come by and take it for a spin

[joe]

Todd,

I admire your attempt, but there's not much chance of getting an unbiased answer here. Most SBers don't have any knowledge or experience with Techno and are dedicated to their product, as they should be.

Tecno-Isel is a very realiable, "Servo Driven" CNC with a, dandy, reliable tool changer. They've been building extremely high quality, expensive CNC's for years. This is an old world German company who started out making CNC's for the steel manufacturing industry. With time they've branched out and have several CNC's. I believe their 5'X10' with 5hp spindle costs about 22K.

About Speed: Historically lead screw units weren't as fast as rack and pinion. This was partially due to the necessary anti-backlash mechanism which caused more resistance and thus slower speeds. That's no longer an issue. The smooth, quiet, fast servo's render impressive tollerances as well as speed.

For us, moderate speeds with smooth cuts wins out every time.


Still, with Techno you don't have a forum like this or the collegiality SBers have. The Shopbot community is a small, but growing, island all to itself. I believe the power of SB is it's users, camps and personell.

[ernie_balch]

Todd,
I am on my 4th router since 1994, I designed and built my first 2 and bought kits for the last 2 routers. There are big differences between the vendors.

This is a large purchase, treat it like one, you need to test drive any router you plan on buying.

Get your design and material planned out and go for a demo. You should have the vendor show you the ropes, convert your design into a runtime file and cut your part. By the time you visit a couple of vendors you will have a strong opinion of your own.

If any vendor won't make the effort before the sale imagine how bad the support will be after the sale!

ernie

[knight_toolworks]

(You couldnt buy my machine off of me for 100k I wouldnt trade it for a techno or a thermwood.)
come on now tell the truth you would sell it for 100k go buy two new ones and a new shop to go with it.

[costast]

I live a few miles away from Techno/Isel. Visited the facility a few months back and spoke to a sales rep, saw the machines in action etc... Really nice folks and good support, and great mfg facility. In the end it boiled down to price for me and the features I wanted. (Found a used bot) Ive been happy with my purchase, its a good machine. The rep also mentioned trade in programs as your needs grow (didnt really ask about the details) but that was pretty cool.

As far as Shopbot support, the forums are OK, but the reality is when I made a request to the Shopbot folks for a bigger 98x46 steel table for the older PRT, I got conflicting answers "we can build you one in 6 weeks" or "we no longer make those tables", or the one we will build for you will "require modification to fit" etc... etc...Nor do I want to build one myself or worry about working with another shop to get it built.

Sorry - but I specifically stock replacement pieces for my customers, it would be nice to do the same for the SB folk. I dont want to read through threads on what to modify on the newer tables or even have to modify the table. I want to know how much my part will cost, pay for it, get it sent to my place so I can work.

*This is actually a concern for me as I was thinking about upgrading to a newer bot and I dont want to deal with that.*

BTW, the majority of emails (even from established ISPs) tend to bounce back when emailing shopbot. I've mentioned this to the staff I spoke to while requesting information but I don't think this was a concern.

Im not saying that the support isnt there, but in my case it was not for that specific setup.

As a side note, I had a Solidworks rep call the Isel machines "toys" at a trade show once. I looked at him like huh? I could only imagine what he would have said about the SB, which I didnt own at the time, but If I knew half of what I know now, the conversation would have taken a different route.

[dray]

(You couldnt buy my machine off of me for 100k I wouldnt trade it for a techno or a thermwood.)
come on now tell the truth you would sell it for 100k go buy two new ones and a new shop to go with it.

OK Ok,, Im not stupid nor a bad businessman. But I do truely love my machine.

I spent alot of time putting it together , trueing, trueing, trueing..

It means alot to me but I definately would sell it for 100k lol and buy 6 more

[Forum Admin]

Use the webform at http://www.shopbottools.com/req_techsupport.htm or http://www.shopbottools.com/contactinfo.htm if you are having problems getting through to ShopBot. The info in the webform will get through and once your email address is in the system, you should have no problems if you send from that email address. I think the bounced reply includes this link to the webform.

[costast]

Understood, but this is not only in initiating the request. This was in responding to quotes sent from SB directly.

I actually like to be able to track our requests as well via email in order to follow up. If a SB rep sends me a quote, I should be able to respond back without issue.

I like my bot, and I am ready to upgrade in the near future but my concern is the experience I have had regarding the steel table replacement pieces. Can I make one? Sure, do I want to? Nope

[Forum Admin]

Yes, you should be able to respond to a quote sent via email if you use the same email address to which the quote was sent. If you'll get us your email address (not available on the forum profile), we'll see if we can take care of this.

[ed_lang]

Notice the 30 min replies and on the weekend to boot!

It just so happens that I sent a email to support over this weekend expecting a response on Monday as my question was not urgent. Chris has responded twice and the questions I had have been resolved.

I have never seen support like ShopBots support with any other company! I had AAA for years. I had to wait a long time for a tow truck or assistance every time I called.

I now have a Ford and a ShopBot so I don't need assistance as much now. (I saw that smile on your face!)

[cabnet636]

todd what are you going to do with the machine,buying a cnc was agonizing to an extent for this cabinetmaker, five years of staring at somthing i've done that, i did not buy techno as to thier price pure and simple there are a lot of fixed table cnc'c at much more resonable prices,

i will say this shop bot will hold value a wood table prt 4896 ten years old brought 5600 on ebay i was talking to the seller who got it at a fire sale for a grand and put it on ebay at the time of the sale man he was shocked!!

techno is a large company that is involved with a far ranging capacity in robotics thier 834 catalog has one of the best manuals for understanding motors, gearing and cnc info i have ever read. and thier book on cnc is free
check this
http://www.techno-isel.com/CNC_Routers/CNCRouter.htm
and catalog
http://www.techno-isel.com/tech_cata.htm
cabnet

[cabnet636]

i will say this i went to the durham plant and am sold that the new prs alpha is and could have been the machin for me the day i got my money the heavens opened up and i got a fixed table 5hp spindle vaccumm and a whole lot of goddies for less than 1/2 of the new alpha (just money man)
but the new shop bot is one decent machine well placed in the class it created. and i got a feeling we will see a strong growth with a fixed table, tool changer from them one day

[jamesgilliam]

Todd, If you are following the Forum like I think you are there is a post about rail bolts being too long. Ted Hall has now personally responded to the problem. How many owners of a company even read their own forum, especially on a Sunday morning. That is the true mark of someone who cares about his customers.

[handh]

I'll agree with James about Ted, I remember when I went to pick up my bot that Ted was busy at a computer, looking just like a regular employee sitting along side everyone else. I remember thinking how acessible Ted was, that's rare these days, you can tell that it is a great company to work for by the atmosphere in the work place. Todd just make the trip to ShopBot and meet the people there and you want have to have anyone talk you into a ShopBot, you will make the decision before you leave the place. I have dealt with a lot of companies and they by far care about there customers and employees more than anyone or place that I have had the pleasure to do business with.

[toddmaci]

Thank you all for the input. I do believe I will go with the ShopBot but wanted to get some other opinions. I just have to get the funds together. I am looking in foward to learning from the group.

Best regards,

Todd