Wrapping design around column?

[myxpykalix]

I am having issues with an overlapping and i can't figure out how to resolve this. I asked about this before but i didn't understand the answers and the company put this on the back burner but they want me to tke another stab at it.

So here is the details. The diameter of the column is 5.25" and this (for practice) was going to be 12" tall.

So I multiplied 5.25x3.14=16.485" on the width
12" on height

Using AC I wrapped the column but if you look you will see that it looks like it might be too short or overlap too long.
Keep in mind i don't get to use this that often so if you know the answer give it to me with as much detail so i can write it down when i go back.

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[Gary Campbell]

Jack...
As far as the 16.485" circumfrence goes, you will need to break your pattern at 2 identical points as close as possible to 16.485" as shown in the pic below. Then unlink X & Y and stretch or shrink the width to the proper width so that they line up.


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I am not sure what will happen throughout the hourglass shape. You will have to experiment with that.
Gary

[myxpykalix]

Gary,
I think i understand so let me see if i can interpret what you said.

You want the width to overlap itself so that the designs look seemless.
As illustrated in the last pic above if i stretched it to where the arrow is it might work.

My question is how can i figure what that deminsion might be? Is it a matter of just trial and error and redo till it looks right or is there some trick i can use to do this?

And also by enlarging the width aren't i then making the file too big for the diameter of my column?

[bob_s]

Jack
Do you have access to Photoshop? If you do, I'll write up how to do it using that program.
Bob

[bcondon]

Hey Jack,

A couple of things I see:

Pi is 3.14159... you are having severe roundoff error.

16.493 is the circumferance OF THE outsode of the pole or the INSIDE OF THE wrapping OBJECT. If your material is 0 thickness, then this is your number but you need to add the thickness of your material to the post.

The other problem is that your object has a repeating pattern length, just like wall paper. If you take patterned wallpaper and try to get it perfect on a pole, it will never work because the repeating pattern length would need to exactly match your equation of (2*PI * (pole radius + material thickness)

so what will really happen is that you will have the pattern determine the size of the object.


Using and example with your pole
Say your pattern is 1.45
say your minimum material thickness is 1/8 or .125

2*pi*(pole radius + material thickness)

2*3.14159*((5.25/2)+.125)= 17.279

Now look at the repeating pattern lengths

1.45
2.90
4.35
5.80
7.25
8.70
10.15
11.60
13.05
14.50
15.95
17.40

so you would build your pattern based on the Pattern lengths of 17.40 because that is the next size after your calulated circumference with materials of 17.278. You would need to shim between the pole and your wrapping object, but not by much to make up the difference between 17.40 and 17.278

[myxpykalix]

I have other photo editing program that i think i can figure same moves with it, so please any help would be appreciated because i went back and tried using Garys advice and it looked like i was making the diameter larger but the location where the ends met didn't change.

I have a feeling that i may still not understand his instructions.

I was basically stretching the size of the model but should i be changing the size of the vectors instead?

[myxpykalix]

Guys, thanks for your help and it begs more questions from me.

"so what will really happen is that you will have the pattern determine the size of the object."
So based on the size of my pattern I need to take the width and divide that by pi, then go and turn my stock to that deminsion as opposed to trying to wrap my pattern to the stock size?

You lost me after that when you start talking about thicknesses and 2*pi, ect

"Using and example with your pole
Say your pattern is 1.45
say your minimum material thickness is 1/8 or .125
2*pi*(pole radius + material thickness)
2*3.14159*((5.25/2)+.125)= 17.279 "

keep in mind i barely got thru readin, ritin, rithmetic!

[bob_s]

Jack;
It might be the preview, but it does not look like the ends of your flat pattern match perfectly. In photoshop I would;
1 extend my canvas to the right a few inches
2 make a copy of the image and slide it to the right with the arrow keys so there is no vertical movement
3 check that the ends line up seamlessly when you get the left end matching the old right end on the layer under it, zoom in to a 1:1 view to check this
4 if it does not match, slide it to the left until it does
5 crop your original bottom layer to this new length
6 throw away the top layer
7 now resize the image to the height and width (uncheck the lock H & W box) you want, the little distortion you get will not be visible

[bcondon]

Jack,

think of two concentric circles

The pole is the INSIDE circle.

The distance between the two circles is the thickness of the material

If you think of wrapping wallpaper around a pole, the pole is the inside circle, the wall paper thickness is the distance between the two circles and the outside circle is the outside of the wall paper.

The dilemna that I saw is that your "pattern" repeats (so there is a repeating pattern length).

it is almost impossible to get the wrapped material to perfectly wrap the post AND match the pattern which you showed.

SO use the pattern match length to determine the size of the object which will be larger than the pole.

[Gary Campbell]

Jack...
Since I posted, some guys with real indexer knowledge have given better solutions than mine. I defer to their greater knowledge.

AC? Looks like Santa has been nice to Jack! You're up there in the software game like the big guys!
Gary

[myxpykalix]

no, no i just get to sneak into the office at the interior design furniture company to play when they aren't busy and lately they have been a little slow.

They have a big router table (not a shopbot) with ATC but no rotary indexer so they call on me to help them make stuff and i can bluff my way thru some things and then run home and ask questions and get answers here then go back and they think i'm real smart.

They have no idea that i have a bunch of experts in my back pocket that make me look good...and NO i'm not going to give you guys a commission on my pay! (will a THANK YOU do...?)
still working on this though..

[jporter]

What's amazing to me is that I kind of half way understand what everyone is talking about. Two years ago when I first started getting into this, I was just like a 4 year old. Maybe two more years and I can start being of some help on these kind of problems, like maybe a 6 year old....joe

[steve]

So... Jack, is the problem solved or should I dive in with my own two cents worth.
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[myxpykalix]

Stephen...Where do you think i got my inspiration to try this? From you!
Yes please jump in and enlighten me because we started to talk about this a good while ago and i didn't understand (yours and others) explaination and it fell by the wayside but I would greatly appreciate your help (since you are the king).
Make it as detailed and simple as your patience allows you.....THANKS!!

[steve]

OK Jack, I'm better with pictures than words, so I think I'll do a web site for this. Lots of pictures. I need to do a sample door for a customer this afternoon, I'll start on it tonight and post a link.

[myxpykalix]

Stephen Thank you very much for your help I appreciate it very much. This is one of those things that for some reason i'm not "getting" and when i do that lightbulb will go on and i'll say "DOH"! I'll look forward to that. thanks again..
(that doesn't mean anyone else can't still jump in because you must have heard the old saying "there's more than one way to skin a cat")

[bleeth]

I'm going to take a stab at this although I haven't done it.
1. first create your relief in a correctly sized rectangle so it wraps smoothly at your widest circumference-You will have to be pretty close in your sizing so take the advice above and carry Pi out to several places.
2. Create the curve that defines the shape of your part as a vector.
3. use that curve per the relief distortion tool to modify your original vector choosing to "replace existing relief with new relief"

Try it out and see if that works. It seems logical.

[steve]

OK Jack (and everyone else), here it is...
http://cottagewoodworkers.ca/tutorials/index.html
have a look.

[steve]

I should add that any post that is going to have some additional work on it such as a weave, I always save a version of it without the weave.

[myxpykalix]

I will make notes and try to absorb this tonite and see if i can make it work. Thanks again for the effort!

[kubotaman]

This post is very interesting. I have one question. Where did you guy's get the pattern for the weave? I will read Stephan Moser site to understand the reasoning in getting the pattern to work correctly. Thanks!!

[myxpykalix]

I'm stuck about half way thru, because i was not aware of the weave option and had been doing them with intersecting vectors previously, but i don't want to confuse the issues by talking about it.

[steve]

The weave texture does make it easier, however the theory is the same. Make a weave larger than you need, place a vector that IS the size you need on it, position it so the ends that need to match, will match, get rid of everything outside that vector and save it as a relief.

By the way my indexer is set up X parallel.

[steve]

Daryl, the weave pattern is part of the texture tool in Artcam. In Artcam you can also creat you own weave from scratch with the weave tool which is a seperate tool from the weave texture tool.
If you don't have Artcam I'm sure someone here,like me for instance, would be happy to create toolpaths for you. Have a look at my web site.
http://cottagewoodworkers.ca/

[kubotaman]

Stephen, I thank you for the offer. I appreciate it. I think it is interesting to read how individuals do things to get a project done. By the way, your turnings are very nice.

[myxpykalix]

Stephen,
Still some confusion, as i'm not able to get them to match up and according to your tutorial i believe it is either in the size of my "created vectors" (square) or my placement of the square and the resulting "cutout".

My assumption is that the square you created is for a leg like you have pictured above. Can you tell me what the 2 deminsions are where the question marks are so i can try to duplicate your example rather then trying to make it fit within my existing material? What diameter material do you start out with?

If i can get one sample to fit I think i can extrapolate this to future ones but i need to get one under my belt.
Thanks for your patience and help.


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[myxpykalix]

I'm just about ready to either give up or say its good enough but i think its pretty close. Do you think this will be noticable?

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[steve]

Jack, that last one pretty looks good, by the time you get that sanded it will be perfect. I line up the ends with the middle of the hole between the weave, I just find it eaiser .
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The vector is 11 x 23.56, but this get changed a little when I size it to the weave pattern. Remember the vector must keep its 90 deg. corners.Doesn't matter what length or width you end up with, if the pattern matches save it as a relief, you can resize it when you paste it on your post model.